LED Flasher Unit & Auto Cancelling

[Guest]

Hi,
After trying various options to convert the GS1000G to LED flashers I have finally decided on an easier method. I built and discarded the full solid state type using FETS as too expensive and complicated.

Here is a tutorial for download that may be of use to some.

http://www.mediafire.com/?zzgjzjyhozb

Please let me have feedback if it works for you.

[Shin-Ken 1074]

Hi matchless, thank you for the very detailed file/instructions on the auto cancell issue that arises when a non OEM flasher can is fitted to an old Suzi. Haven't implemented you fix yet however, I just wanted to say thanks for your help and posting the fix for owners that may need the solution to this issue, cheers.

[Matchless]

Hi matchless, thank you for the very detailed file/instructions on the auto cancell issue that arises when a non OEM flasher can is fitted to an old Suzi. Haven't implemented you fix yet however, I just wanted to say thanks for your help and posting the fix for owners that may need the solution to this issue, cheers.

You are welcome

[Theo]

Awesome. You keep going above and beyond to help out the GS community. Thanks.
-Theo

[Matchless]

Awesome. You keep going above and beyond to help out the GS community. Thanks.
-Theo

Thanks, finally I can tidy up my workbench which is hosting the remnants of a good couple of prototypes!

Now the only mystery box left is the Self Cancelling Unit. If I could just get hold of one that is not potted!

[BassCliff]

Andre,

Great write-up! It's very thorough and understandable. Even I can understand it.

I just might give this a try after I get Jessie back together again. Thanks for all your efforts.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[Matchless]

Cliff,
I hope we will see Jessie on the road soon.
There is a spin off I was not aware of. A while back I changed my gauge lights to LED's and noticed that this modification caused them to be on at about 1/4 intensity when the cancelling unit has timed out. I found this very handy as a reminder that the flashers need the switch returned to center.

Glad that you think it may be usefull.
Regards

[korrg]

thanks for the tutorial, I't is helpful to a degree as I ride a smaller ('81 650L) bike with the single indicator in the middle of my dash, and as far as I can tell I don't have auto cancel. I have a 2 prog relay and I'm attempting to go LED all around, of course my stock relay did not work and my local auto zone only had the 2 terminal in the thermal variety, signals now work slowly, and only with led in the rear (or front I guess I'm more paranoid of being rear ended!)

what is the 3rd prong for on the electronic relays? can I by-pass it, or build a wire "break-in" to put 2 of the prongs (from the signal generator) into 1 lead to reconnect with my system?

or ideally is there a 2 prong electronic relay out there, and perhaps the zone just didn't carry it?

according to your tutorial resistor should be my last resort, and that makes sense to me, so holding off on the trip to radio shack.

[Steve]

Just so you know, you just dragged up a thread that is almost two years old, and many of us are going to read it with interest, thinking it's a new thread.

It would have been better to start your own thread, and maybe toss in a link to this one so we know where you are coming from.

Anyway, ...

thanks for the tutorial, I't is helpful to a degree as I ride a smaller ('81 650L) bike with the single indicator in the middle of my dash, and as far as I can tell I don't have auto cancel. I have a 2 prog relay and I'm attempting to go LED all around, of course my stock relay did not work and my local auto zone only had the 2 terminal in the thermal variety, signals now work slowly, and only with led in the rear (or front I guess I'm more paranoid of being rear ended!)

There are two ways you can approach this.
1. Use your stock setup, as far as flasher and wiring go, install your LEDs for your signals and install load resistors on each side to draw more current through the stock thermal flasher.
NOTE: if you are tyring to add LED signals to save electrical load, this method will not accomplish that.

2. Install your LED signals and an electronic timer based flasher (they are also available at Auto Zone) that will flash them at the proper rate.
However, if you do this, you will have to re-wire your single indicator on the dash. That little light acts as a current limiter and will not pass the current necessary to light the stock bulbs on the other side. That means that if you have your LEFT signal on, the left signals and the indicator will flash, but not the RIGHT signals, and vice versa. The indicator bulb will, however, allow enough current across to light LEDs on the other side, probably without being lit itself, so you have to change it to an LED, too, and install a couple of diodes. I have a diagram that can be shown if you choose to go this route. Note that you will lose your self-cancelling feature if you do this.

what is the 3rd prong for on the electronic relays? can I by-pass it, or build a wire "break-in" to put 2 of the prongs (from the signal generator) into 1 lead to reconnect with my system?

or ideally is there a 2 prong electronic relay out there, and perhaps the zone just didn't carry it?

Most of the electronic timers are going to be three-prong. They need a power source (1) and a ground (2), and need to have a modulated output that goes to the signals (3). They work by having an internal timer that does not care what the load is, that timer needs the constant power and ground connections.

The stock GS flasher found on '80 and newer bikes does NOT work that way, so you will NOT find ANY flasher in ANY auto parts store ANYWHERE that will plug in and flash your LED signals and retain your self-cancelling function.

... according to your tutorial resistor should be my last resort, and that makes sense to me, so holding off on the trip to radio shack.

You are more likely to find the load resistor at Auto Zone than Radio Shack. Look in the "tuner" section, where they have all the goodies the kids are adding to their rice rockets.

.

[korrg]

Just so you know, you just dragged up a thread that is almost two years old, and many of us are going to read it with interest, thinking it's a new thread.

It would have been better to start your own thread, and maybe toss in a link to this one so we know where you are coming from.

Anyway, ...

sorry I just trying not to start a new thread on an old subject, and it's a good tutorial

Most of the electronic timers are going to be three-prong. They need a power source (1) and a ground (2), and need to have a modulated output that goes to the signals (3). They work by having an internal timer that does not care what the load is, that timer needs the constant power and ground connections.

The stock GS flasher found on '80 and newer bikes does NOT work that way, so you will NOT find ANY flasher in ANY auto parts store ANYWHERE that will plug in and flash your LED signals and retain your self-cancelling function.

as stated before I don't think she has a self canceling function so no loss there.

If I'm reading the diagram correctly my relay has 2 prongs, power in, and power out to left or right depending on how the circuit is grounded at the switch on the handlebars. could I use a 3 prong and just not use the ground (as there's is one on the switch) or possibly run a ground wire to the body or battery?

[Normk]

Some made the comment that one would not find a flasher available in any parts store which will flash LED's lights while retaining the self cancelling feature which is essentially correct. It is easy enough, however to provide a shunt load or other means to easily accomplish using a standard automotive flasher to accomplish this task avec cancelling.

In case someone did not understand that aspect of the issue.....

[willie]

It is easy enough, however to provide a shunt load or other means to easily accomplish using a standard automotive flasher to accomplish this task avec cancelling.
In case someone did not understand that aspect of the issue.....

Please excuse my ignorance but....what does avec mean or stand for? I'd also like to know what the other means is if not to install a shunt load.
Thanks,
Willie

[cowboyup3371]

avec is French for with.

[Matchless]

It is easy enough, however to provide a shunt load or other means to easily accomplish using a standard automotive flasher to accomplish this task avec cancelling.

The self cancelling feature on a GS unfortunately will not and can not work with a non OEM flasher unit regardless of whether you are adding resistors or not.

[Normk]

Wondering how my understanding of these circuits and previous experience with old self cancelling systems could be so off the mark, I went out this morning with a pocket full of signal flashers and tried them in my 1979 GS850.

All flashers units tried, function to make the signal lights flash although the delay before flashing begins and the pulse width of flashing intervals varies depending on the flasher.

Nothing new there as load type flashers intended for heavier loads as typical of automotive and light truck applications usually flash slower on bikes because of the lighter lighting loads. Electronic automotive flashers such as the Tridon HD12 I was trying this morning generally flash in the same way in both bikes and cars.

As I asserted in my previous post, an automotive flasher operates virtually identically to the original Suzuki flasher in my bike. The self cancelling actually works a bit more consistently with the electronic HD12 than with the original Suzuki flasher on this cold morning.

In short, you are incorrect, Matchless. An automotive flasher can be a direct replacement for the stock bike one but this is not new so cannot understand why the denial would be posted.

As for my mention of the need for resistors or some other means of providing load in order for LED lights to function on this system...haven't actually tested on my bike but would enjoy hearing a credible theory as to why it will not work as it does on every other conventional vehicle signal system. If necessary I can also do that although it may mean that I have to go out and buy some LED 1157/2357 replacement bulbs as don't think I have any in stock at the moment.

This issue of "have you actually tried this or are you just blowing smoke?" often comes to mind and this factor costs me quite a lot of money each year in order to help web people as it is quite frequently necessary for me to buy components in order to make sure that I am not misleading when I don't actually know. Actually knowing both the theory and practice and then having verified under actual conditions involving the type of system in question is very different than having read some web posts.

The problem in using LED lights is not that they are LED but simply that they fail to provide sufficient load for many flashers to function. Adding a shunt load to the LED light simply provides sufficient load that the circuit loads the flasher sufficiently for it to function as designed. There are other ways to accomplish this task but the shunt is, crude but simple.

This is the same kind of issue where one wished to use a similar signal flasher in order to flash a tiny incandescent bulb, same problem, same possible solutions.

I have converted some of the momentary on and push to cancel electronic signal systems to use without the electronic module but cannot recall the solution. It was not electronic but rather electrical but will try to recall and post in case it is helpful to someone.

Yes, I'm a bit miffed about the tone of that post.....

The self cancelling feature on a GS unfortunately will not and can not work with a non OEM flasher unit regardless of whether you are adding resistors or not.