harbor freight honing tool

[mrbadwrench]

any opinions on whether or not to use the harbor freight hone tool- most posts seem to recommend the "dingleberry" style-will the automotive type take off too much surface area?-also will i need new rings after i hone the cylinders?

[tkent02]

For a used cylinder the dingleberry hones are better, they conform to slightly worn cylinder walls better. The stone type hones the high spots, won't get to the low spots. Used rings will seal again, if they are not worn beyond limits. Check the end gap.

[Nessism]

No rings will seal properly if the cylinder is out of round or has excessive taper. I suggest you measure the cylinder before attempting a hone job.

[Captainkirk]

Regardless; Yes, you need new rings if you hone.
Not having seen the piece in question, I would still be reluctant to use a Harbor Freight "anything" on any part requiring precision machining.
If the bore is more than a few thousandths out of round, I'd take it to a competent machine shop for a precision fit with your new rings.
One easy way to tell if a Flex Hone will work is to spray the bores with Permatex Perma Blue machinist's bluing. A few good passes up and down the bore should remove ALL the bluing; if not, they are likely too out of round and new rings will not seat.

[tkent02]

Regardless; Yes, you need new rings if you hone.

Why?
Used rings will reseal, if they are not worn out.

[Captainkirk]

Why?
Used rings will reseal, if they are not worn out.

Not well. The edges have been lapped in to the cylinder out of round, however slight it may be, that was causing the low compression and/or oil consumption in the first place. Add to this the fact you are enlarging the bore slightly, for rings that have already worn away several hundred-thousandths of an inch, thus widening the ring gap, setting up for yet more blow-by or oil consumption. (Not to mention the fact that like any other "spring", they can and WILL lose tension via work-hardening and metal fatigue. Which will cause glazing. Big circle, huh?) For the amount of work required if the rings don't seat, glaze the cylinder bore, and require re-honing, it's not worth the risk. New rings are not that expensive! I'm not saying it can't be done, successfully at that, only that I would not recommend it. Kinda like reusing a head gasket. Great if it works, but if not; oh boy.....

[tkent02]

Not well. The edges have been lapped in to the cylinder out of round, however slight it may be, that was causing the low compression and/or oil consumption in the first place. Add to this the fact you are enlarging the bore slightly, for rings that have already worn away several hundred-thousandths of an inch, thus widening the ring gap, setting up for yet more blow-by or oil consumption. (Not to mention the fact that like any other "spring", they can and WILL lose tension via work-hardening and metal fatigue. Which will cause glazing. Big circle, huh?) For the amount of work required if the rings don't seat, glaze the cylinder bore, and require re-honing, it's not worth the risk. New rings are not that expensive! I'm not saying it can't be done, successfully at that, only that I would not recommend it. Kinda like reusing a head gasket. Great if it works, but if not; oh boy.....

If there was blowby, or oil consumption, or low compression or smoke, that would not be the time to re use the rings. If the base gasket is being replaced on a 10,000 mile engine, the rings are almost new, why not? They will reseal and they will run another 100,0000 miles or so. Sure rings are cheap, but sometimes waiting for them isn't an option.

I don't think anyone would try to re use a head gasket would they?

[blowerbike]

point point and counter point..
you have to be smarter than what you are working on.
you don't reuse junk parts from high mileage/smoking/oil burning engines.
i have reused rings on many occasions with 100% success and i have never had to "re-ring" because of it.
this was on turbo charged GS engines.
zero blow by..even compression and very little leak down.
the point is...
if your a non mechanical finger fumbling buffoon that can't tell good rings from bad then maybe you shouldn't be inside your engine in the first place.
i mean buffoon is the nicest way.

[Captainkirk]

point point and counter point..
you have to be smarter than what you are working on.
you don't reuse junk parts from high mileage/smoking/oil burning engines.
i have reused rings on many occasions with 100% success and i have never had to "re-ring" because of it.
this was on turbo charged GS engines.
zero blow by..even compression and very little leak down.
the point is...
if your a non mechanical finger fumbling buffoon that can't tell good rings from bad then maybe you shouldn't be inside your engine in the first place.
i mean buffoon is the nicest way.

So, point and counter point...
If you aren't basing your teardown on;
a) poor compression/blowby, or;
b) excessive oil consumption/blue smoky exhaust;
....then, why do you have the cylinders off in the first place?
Leaky base gasket? We don't know...OP doesn't say. BUT....if that was, in fact the case, then why are we honing the cylinders? Rust? Scoring? Signs of overheating? "Ring Ridge" at the top of the bore?
I don't disagree entirely; if you are changing a leaky base gasket, then change it and leave both rings AND cylinders alone. If, however, there is good reason to hone the jugs, logic would indicate the rings oughta be changed at the same time. I know there are folks who would gladly replace disc brake pads, but not replace or re-grind a badly scored rotor....but I'm not one of them....and I really don't care to ride shotgun with 'em, either. Will they work? Sure. Will they be as effective as new parts? Absolutely not.

"If your a non mechanical finger fumbling buffoon that can't tell good rings from bad"

So, at a glance.....how do you tell "good rings from bad" without the benefit of:
a) a cranking compression test
b) a differential compression test
c) an analysis of conditions such as oil consumption, smoking exhaust, etc?
Certainly not by "looking at them".
Stuck or broken rings are obvious. Excessive end gap is a measurable wear limit. We are assuming, by the ambiguity of the OP, that the head is already off and he's decided he needs to hone the jugs.

if your a non mechanical finger fumbling buffoon that can't tell good rings from bad then maybe you shouldn't be inside your engine in the first place.
i mean buffoon is the nicest way.

Can you mean buffoon in a nice way? This question remains open for debate...

This does not, if fact, make him (or her) a "buffoon" (neither does it guarantee they're NOT!) It places he/she in an area in which they obviously feel uncertain how to proceed. So, I'll revise my suggestions slightly.
If you have a valid reason to hone the jugs, by all means re-ring the darn thing at the same time! If you're just thinking about doing it because you have the head off, compression and oil consumption are fine....leave it alone. Fix what you're in there to fix and get out!

i have reused rings on many occasions with 100% success and i have never had to "re-ring" because of it.
this was on turbo charged GS engines.
zero blow by..even compression and very little leak down.

I believe you. BUT....did you have to hone the cylinders? Or were these simply R&R jobs? I'm betting there was zero blowby, even compression, and very little leak down before you started.

Here's my point. In giving advice to someone who is obviously uncertain on how to proceed, I would never gamble their engine's reliability by advising them to scrimp on replacing parts. After all, they're the one who will have to foot the bill if they need to do an additional teardown to replace parts that might have been easily replaced first time around....(Rings come to mind.) Not to mention buying a second set of gaskets....nobody re-uses head gaskets, do they?
And as always, I offer up debate in a light spirit....not trying to argue with anyone, just presenting another point of view. Cheers!

[tkent02]

Fvck.
Rocket science again.

[blowerbike]

end gap and the feel of the rings..
if the compression ring is sharp it should not be used.
the scraper ring is always sharp.
as far as oil rings go..
you can install only the oil rings on a piston... slide the pin in and install it upside down in the correct bore...hook a fish scale to the pin an see what kind of lbs you have.
the more you have the less oil passes by and the more HP it take to move these in the cylinder.
the less lbs you have the more oil passes and smoke comes with that..
it does free up HP with lower lbs at the cost of smoke.
anyways not many pays attention to good information it seems.
poof..me gone