82'1100g

[don]

Stopped into my local Zuk dealer today to pick up some parts and got to talk with the service mgr a bit. Did some investigating about my " rod knock " noise I'm so concerned about. As it turns out, the noise is coming from the top end without a doubt. Specificly, right under the breather cover. I'm guessing something to do with that idler wheeliebobber thing for the cam chain, I could feel the noise through the cam chain tensioner knob. I have not taken the valve cover off yet to check things out, but if anyone has any experience with problems with this thing, please educate me ..........

Thanks in advance.

And back to the oil thing..........

Straight cut gears........no wipe action.......no hypoid......standard gear lube
"Swirlie" cut gears........wipe action..........hypoid..........High pressure, (hypoid), lube

END

[hikermikem]

Might be a good idea to remove the cam chain tensioner & verify it's in good working order - rebuild it while it's out.

I'm guessing you know better, but just don't turn the crank while it's out.

[don]

Redid the seals/o-rings on the one for my 550, so yeah......I know.......parts flying evertwhere.......LOL .........Strong flippin' spring.....................

[hikermikem]

Redid the seals/o-rings on the one for my 550, so yeah......I know.......parts flying evertwhere.......LOL .........Strong flippin' spring.....................

Yes, been there, done that...

I was refering to the motor crank, turning it over (e.g, adjusting valves) while the tensioner is out could cause the timing chain to jump a tooth or 3.

[don]

Mike,

Yes I do know better than to turn the engine over without tension on the cam thain. Thanks for the heads up though. I'm sure more obvious things have been overlooked........

[Steve]

BTW,
Now that I have a shaftie, What the heck is Hypoid oil and where do I get it?

It's gear oil for the shaft drive, you can buy it at any automotive store

doesn't have to be hypoid, just gear oil

I respectfully disagree with derwood. Should use hypoid.

As for the whole gear oil thing, Hypoid is simply the gear design. The gear profile is exactly what's in the rear end of a car.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but you need to use hypoid oil.

..., you can not replace hypoid rated oil with plain old gear oil but as long as the oil is designed for a hypoid contoured gearset, (automotive ring and pinion), harmony will be granted.

for the sake of discussion .....I'll flog the horse....Hypoid gear lube is unnecessary because the final drive is not a hypoid gearset, it is not like a rwd car...

My manual says "Hypoid". My bike will get "hypoid". Put what you want in yours.



.

[don]

You guys really like this debate don't you.

The oil I put in both gearsets is API-GL-5, " Suitable for all high pressure gearing applications including HYPOID". I chose Lucas because it was the middle of the road as far as price. In our stock cars we used either Amile or Royal Purple. RP was $15.00+ per quart and the cheap stuff was $5.00 per quart, Lucas was $10.00 per quart.

You folks feel free to continue......my decision has been made..................

As always, thank you for your input.

[don]

article

one last note about the oil............

Can someone explain the difference between Hypoid and Non-Hypoid
>oil?
"Hypoid" is not really a question of oil, so much as a question of
gearcutting. Old (1920's) rear axles used straight bevel gears to form
the crownwheel and pinion. These had two disadvantage, the pinion
shaft meets the crownwheel on its central axis, and the straight cut
gears are noisy. By using a more complex "hypoid" gear tooth shape (if
you look at a pinion, the teeth appear twisted) these problems can be
addressed. The more gradual engagement of the teeth along their length
reduces noise. By careful design of the geometry the pinion can be
made to mesh _below_ the axis of the crownwheel. As the centre height
of the crownwheel is fixed by the wheel height, this allows the
propshaft to be lowered relative to the car body, giving a clearer
floorpan and lower centre of gravity for better cornering. Hypoid
bevels are now universal in this application.
Because of the sliding contact that hypoid gears make, their
hydrodynamic contact pressure is higher. To be suitable for use with
hypoid gears, a lubricant must be capable of resisting high pressures.
Oils with "EP" ratings (Extreme Pressure) such as EP90 are required.
Some brands describe themselves as "hypoid" instead, a term which is
synonymous with EP. GL-5 is a formal API standard for this type of oil
(comparable to MIL-L-2105B/C/D)
> The book is telling me to use Non-Hypoid gear oil 80W or
>80W/90 on the manual transmission and GL-5 hypoid gear oil 90W on
>the rear axle.
A manual transmission won't usually contain hypoid gears, so it
doesn't need an EP oil. Rare exceptions are those transaxles where the
crownwheel and gearbox share the same lubricant. Although an EP oil is
more complex to manufacture, it has no disadvantages when used in
instances where the EP attribute isn't strictly required. Manual
steering boxes and other slow-moving oil-containing components are
often filled with 90 weight oil. It's usual to buy EP90 because that's
what the axle requires, then use the same oil for all other
components.
There's little practical difference between 80 & 90 weights. I fill
everything with EP80 and I've never had a problem.
There's an increasing trend amongst manufacturers to reduce the number
of different lubricant types required. My own gearbox (5 speed Range
Rover) runs on ATF, but 20W/50 engine oil or EP90 axle oil are equally
permissible.
--
Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk
The Internet has given us all mountains of information at our fingertips.
...and all most people want to do is pick their noses with them.

[don]

I'm Surprized none of you cought on that my description of my cam chain stuff was wrong.

When I had written all of that I was going by my Clymer book and I hadn't taken the valve cover off yet. When I did remove it, I did not find that "wheelie" idler thing, I found a simple plastic guide block that rides under the cam chain. I believe that is what's making all the noise. I don't know if this thing is supposed to be spring loaded or "snap" down into place, or what, but it was like half way. I think the poor/lack of tune gives the motor a little skip at lower RPM's and the cam chain is "knocking" that bottom chain guide around. My 83 550 doesn't have anything under the cam chain at all, I'm thinking, does this thing even need to be there? Has anyone ever removed it and ran it that way?

While in there, I stuck the feeler gages to the valves....... sheesh do I have some work ahead of me. Out of 8 I think 2 were ok. Some tight and some loose. I'm thinking of having the valve seals and seats done over the winter, so all new shims will be in order anyway.

If I'm making any sence, no sence, complete sence, please advise on a direction for me to go.

And no I have not checked the carb synch or taken the cam chain tensioner out to look at it yet. Definitly on the list to do though. I know both can have a big effect on all of this.

Thanks,

Don

[don]

A PS to my last post, (#41),

Plese keep in mind that all of my harf arsed fixes are simply a means to figure out if I have purchased a nag or a stalion without going hog wild with the money over the winter. (Man I crack myself up! I shoulda' been a dang farmer! ...... LOL)

[don]

Rrode the ol' girl to work today. After fiddling with that silly under the cam chain support/holder/guide thing last night, I didn't hear any knocking noises throughout the day today. After work I rode to the Zuk dealer to get a couple things. Felt the clutch lever getting weird so I rode most of the 15 miles home without using the clutch. Got home, inspected, fiddled, and broke the cable in about 3 pulls of the handle in the shed. Glad it was there and not on my way home! Good thing I can shift w/o a clutch.................

This thing's been beat and neglected bbbbbaaaaaaaaaaadddd..............

We'll get er' back in shape though.......over the winter.............

[don]

Took the " big boy bike", (1100G), on the ride with Skateguy this Sunday, (short video and details in the monthly CT ride thread in the meeting place). The ol' girl ran ok. Started every time, didn't hicup at all, and never left me feeling like I had to worry about how I was going to get back home. I put about 180 miles on it that day. Only thing I saw was the final drive, (on the wheel), leaked. I know there is a seal in there, but any suggestions about the venting for that gearcase? Is there one, should there be one........?

Thanks,
Don

[tkent02]

There is a vent on the final drive, hidden inside. If the oil is too high it vents some oil out onto the wheel.
With a little luck, maybe that's what your oily wheel is from.

How full is it?

[don]

Filled as recommended, till it came out the fill hole. Let it "spill" a little, wiped up the area, installed the plug, and wiped it off again.

[don]

Last weekend I dropped the 1100 of to one of my vintage racer bud's for a physical. Getting the valve seals/seats/lapped/whatever done by him. He has the appropriate tools......I don't. I made a second trip to his place on my 550.......I almost threw the poor thing on the ground going around the first corner I took......I hadn't ridden the 550 for like 2 weeks prior while I was figuring out the 1100. What a difference between the two!

Can't wait to get them both in the cellar for the winter and get them both "proper". (Starting to get a little chilly around here for my wussy arse to be riding, 35-40 degrees F in the morning) brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Also can't wait to give an update on how the 1100 feels after a valve job and propper synch/tune................wooo hooo!!!!!!!!! (Hang on Martha.......gonna twist it now.....!!!!!!).