Oz GS1000 resto and GSX1100 cafe builds

[Chuck78]

if you don't want to buy the racetech compression cartridge set, here are some simple mods that people on vtr1000.org do. make sure to read through the comments, and remember that the spring rates that one commenter recommends are for a 420lb Super hawk, still need the recommended spring rate for your bike and your weight. I would speculate that a heavier fork oil than they recommend is also in order since you will be using a heavier spring. I would say 10wt for starters & play with the rebound adjustment to get a quick but controlled rebound. If that's still too quick, try 12.5, but no more than 15wt. this is all just based on my speculation, so don't take it as gold, but a good starting reference point.

http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=29710&sid=f661b04d9fae89d4b7b54cab812499ae

and make sure you get straight rate linear springs, not progressive rate. the dampening will work much more appropriately if it has a linear increasing rate with no drastic spike in stiffness without an appropriate change in dampening at that point of suspension travel.

[Chuck78]

there's also this as a possible alternative to Racetech parts, although I fully endorse Racetech because they fully support so many vintage bike models:

http://www.daughertymotorsports.com/vtr1000f/vtr1000f.html

http://racetech.com/ProductSearch/2/Honda/VTR1000F/1997-2005

[Chuck78]

Yes you are right John, the sp1 are the most desirable upgrade, but unfortunately those calipers are in high demand and certainly not all that easy to find, especially in Australia for me.

I believe it was the RC51/SP1 Calipers that were the 32mm/34mm piston size, same as the CBR600F4i. Either of those will be the ultimate, but need minor Dremel clearancing to the body and/or the fork mounting ear, as the larger pistons make the bodies bigger compared to the tiny piston vtr1000f calipers that are otherwise the same.
Also, the 01-02 GSXR1000 6 piston calipers will give you equal or even better braking, and are a direct bolt on, no clearancing or anything. They, however, are notorious for needing the pistons cleaned AT LEAST once a season, as with 6 pistons, a little bit of dirt on each one apparently causes them to not want to retract smoothly, and eventually will get crudded up enough to almost seize, causing odd pad wear from the smallest (rear?) pistons tapering in toward the front..

A 15.87mm/16mm/5/8" master cylinder with any of those will give you very powerful brakes with a lot of lever travel/feel/modulation. A master cylinder bore of 17mm or 19mm will give you more of a firm powerful brake feel but not quite as much actual braking power. There was a really useful spreadsheet on a vtr website with ratios and sizes.

[Chuck78]

Here is all the info I have compiled/copied&pasted from various vtr & vfr sites, as well as an sv650 site.

GSXR's come with a nearly identical Tokico caliper to the 4 piston honda nissin's, and are easier to find in gold if you prefer that over black.




RC51 (sp1 & sp2?), cbr600F4i, cbr 929/954, and 2001 or 02 six pot GSXR1000 k1 calipers.

SP2 master cylinder has better feel?
CBR600F4i master cylinder

6 pot GSXR calipers require frequent (annual)teardown & cleaning otherwise pistons will get sticky & seize. Can leave on bike & remove calipers & squeeze lever to push out 1 set of pistons at a time & wipe crud off

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewto...p?f=31&t=15494 great info on leverages
Look for posts on radial master cylinders

The difficulty will be in finding an integrated master cylinder to match any of the larger calipers. The 11/16" master cylinder from the CBR600RR3-4 matches the calipers from the CBR954RR (2002-03 Fireblade)...I think

The calipers should be cross-compatible for following bikes:
GSXR600 01~03
GSXR750 01~03
GSXR1000 01~02
GSX1400 all years
GSR600 all years
SV1000/S all years
ZZR1200 all years
Z1000 03~06
VTR1000F all years
CBR600RR 03~04
CBR929RR 00~01
CBR900RR 95~99
CBR954RR 02~03
CB1300/CB400 03~08
Maybe fit others bikes which have Nissin/Tokico calipers C-C 62mm space.


The Tokico version of the Nissan 4 piston caliper came on the 2000-2003 GSX-R600, the 2000-2003 GSX-R750, and all model years of the SV1000,
The Nissin equivalent was on just about every Honda sportbike from that era, including the F4, F4i, 929, 954, Superhawk, VFR800, RC-51 and even the first-generation CBR600RR.

[Dirty Deeds]

A better option perhaps?

Where can I find a tank like that? What model did it originally come on? Thanking you in advance.

[blackhammer]

I believe that tank is the larger of the 2 styles that came on the 80-82 GSX1100ET.

[blackhammer]

Well, Chuck, as usual some outstanding info/research there... Ive seen that table on the VTR forums and it formed the basis of my plans to upgrade to 600F4i calipers, alot of the VTR guys that do that upgrade just use the VTR M/C, and thats what i was intending to do, might look at 15/16mm ones if i can find one cheap.

Excellent info on the forks, much appreciated that you share it. Not exactly sure what i will do with mine yet.

With the speedo send unit i have gone down the delete road...like John suggested it was easier to go with an electronic dash. I was initially all about the classic look with gauges etc, but my tastes have taken more of a turn towards the modern minimalist side of things. Added a pic below to show the new top triple i had made up with the instrument integrated.

In terms of the standard speedo sender i dont think it is possible to mod it, looking at initially i thought it may be possible, but once you remove the drive cover there just isnt any way to get 20mm out of it.

Having a look around on the interwebs tho there does seem to be quite a few 20mm axle speedo drives around, some of the early GSXR's used 20mm axle i believe, maybe you can make one of those work? Gearing may be an issue if you are going to use a standard 19" wheel.





New top triple:



got my new rear shocks:

[John Kat]

Well, Chuck, as usual some outstanding info/research there... Ive seen that table on the VTR forums and it formed the basis of my plans to upgrade to 600F4i calipers, alot of the VTR guys that do that upgrade just use the VTR M/C, and thats what i was intending to do, might look at 15/16mm ones if i can find one cheap.

Excellent info on the forks, much appreciated that you share it. Not exactly what i will do with mine yet.

With the speedo send unit i have gone down the delete road...like John suggested it was easier to go with an electronic dash. I was initially all about the classic look with gauges etc, but my tastes have taken more of a turn towards the modern minimalist side of things. Added a pic below to show the new top triple i had made up with the instrument integrated.

In terms of the standard speedo sender i dont think it is possible to mod it, looking at initially i thought it may be possible, but once you remove the drive cover there just isnt any way to get 20mm out of it.

Having a look around on the interwebs tho there does seem to be quite a few 20mm axle speedo drives around, some of the early GSXR's used 20mm axle i believe, maybe you can make one of those work? Gearing may be an issue if you are going to use a standard 19" wheel.





New top triple:



got my new rear shocks:

Beautifull top triple!
Are the shocks from YSS?
What's the model number?

[Chuck78]

YSS makes some of the best shocks for the money these days for sure... yes, they are YSS.

Nice triple! Looked at my VTR forks a bit & measured. Yes, the spokes are close to the calipers with stock triples, but they clear. I may go with the 6 piston gsxr1000 calipers as the smaller pistons will give more clearance, but I think some Discaciatti Racing 4 pots are a little more slender as well but $$$$$$$.

[blackhammer]

Yeh, rz366's. Definitely the best shock/features for the money. I contemplated ikon (had koni's over the years) and hagon for a long time, but gas and ride hight adjustment won the day.
Also when ordering the guys at YSS were really good to chat too, had the shocks 3 days after ordering.

No room in my budget for the Discaciatti's :-) they look fantastic tho... ive picked up a set of 600F4i twin pistons to try (50$), i'll keep an eye out for the 6 pots, but much like the RC51 calipers they seem hard to find down here.

[Chuck78]

Yeh, rz366's. Definitely the best shock/features for the money

RZ? You mean Z366? Great shock. The Z362-TRL is probably the best good shock for the money @ $499... 366 has larger shaft, 16mm vs their base/standard 12mm
@$599 the G302 has piggyback & 60 clicks rebound adjustment but 30 or 32mm piston, still a fantastic bargain. E-302 is same but no external dampening adjustment, best budget piggyback on the market @ under $500.
@$769 the G362TRCL has adjustable compression & rebound. @ $1069 you get an all Billet machined G362TRWL with 60 clicks rebound plus high speed AND low speed compression adjustment... less $ than Ohlins & more features. $1200 if you get the 16mm shaft version with those features, same price as Ohlins but way better...

I'm hoping for another vintage pair of piggybacks - Fox Factory Shox, Ohlins, or Works for the Rickman build, but if new shocks, they will surely be YSS.

No room in my budget for the Discaciatti's :-) they look fantastic tho... ive picked up a set of 600F4i twin pistons to try (50$).

Same here... very nice but $400/ea! The cbr600f4i calipers are one of the top 2 or 4 picks in the 4 piston nissin/tokico range. I think I need the 6 piston 01-02 gsxr calipers to utilize their large overall piston area with smaller diameter pistons so that I can clear my spokes better. Looks to be very tight with the stock vtr calipers, 1 or 1.4mm maybe of clearance to spokes. Castings are supposedly 6mm thick however, slight room for angle milling at bottom inside piston area to clearance more.

The GSXR Tokico's mostly come in gold, where the Nissin's mostly black. Largest volume in Nissin is the RC51 SP1 (?) & CBR600F4I @ 34mm/32mm pistons. The best in the Tokico 4 pistons are 34mm/30mm pistons. The 6 pot gsxr's are similar in piston area to those, very trick looking, but prone to stiff piston operation if pistons are not cleaned once or twice a season.

I'm going to stick with the stock vtr triples for now I think. If I really have trouble with caliper clearance, I can swap to some gsxr or sv650 triples @ 195 to 200mm (vtr is 192mm), but will need to get that x-y vise setup to run a collet holder and end mill bits in my drill press to machine a wider center section to the Coerce fork brace I plan to run. Hope to get a small to medium lathe also to turn my own rotor spacers and adapters.

There's a lot of good info on fork swaps on VFR forums, as they swap vtr1000 forks since the vtr & vfr are 2 models which use forks that are actually similar in height to our vintage bikes. The vfr uses 2 piston calipers & 296mm rotors which work plenty good, but owners upgrade them to vtr's sometimes solely to get the 4 piston caliper mounts even. Plus Racetech makes great cartridges for them.



The VFR forks that have external rebound adjustment and 2 piston calipers now seem to me to be the other best option for our bikes, easier clearance for spokes but not the absolute ultimate in brakes though, just really good brakes.

I seem to think I recall vfr discussions about one CBR fork that was taller as well, but it slips my mind.

[blackhammer]

I may even leave the VTR calipers on mine in the long run, they are in near new condition. The VTR guys complain about them, but the difference over our old GS setups will still be immense.
The VTR guys also like to complain about the forks ive noticed on the forums :-)

The clearance issues with the calipers were a major concern for me, that's why i stuck with the GK spacing and bottom triple.. Interested to see how you go with the for brace, ive been contemplating how im going to achieve that task..

[Chuck78]

I think the vtr calipers will clear better with stock triples than the f4i's, but with your gk triples, I think you'll be fine regardless.

I took some gs hub and superhawk fork/brake measurements this AM. With the 32mm offset(EDIT: 23mm offset, typo) 599 Hornet rotors, I'll only need to bump up my GS-ninja caliper rotor spacer up from 5mm thick (17mm offset cbr rotor on gs forks & 2 piston calipers) to 7.25mm thick to get to the centers of the superhawk calipers. I might wait to get the gsxr calipers before I have the parts made, make sure they are dead on the same spec, but should be.

Here's the 5mm thick version for cbr rotors on gs forks with ninja/gs500 calipers:

[blackhammer]

Its been a merry old Xmas... and because i know everyone likes pics here's what's made me merry.

got my wheels back, very pleased with the outcome. Rims are 17x4.5 rear 18x2.5 front



Then got myself some rubber, 150 rears 110 front



On the bike



150 is a comfortable fit in the swinger and chain clears by a mile.




Spokes clear the calipers by plenty as well up front, so now im busy getting all the spacing worked out for the discs.
Also have a 16cell antigravity to try and squeeze under the seat..
Feel like i might get a ride in this summer :-)

[blackhammer]

Now, to search function my way to a rear disc/caliper upgrade!