BanditRE's GS850

[BanditRE]

Thanks Cyrano. I searched the forum a little and the general idea I got was 3500 at 50 in top was about right. That puts it at about 14mph per 1000 rpm in 5th, so at 70mph it should be about 5k, 80 mph about 5700 rpm. I'll pay more attention next ride!

[eil]

Fantastic looking 850. You found this on craigslist, right? If so, I think I remember seeing the ad. And then your first post not long after. It's been fun following this thread. Enjoy the ride!

[BanditRE]

Fantastic looking 850. You found this on craigslist, right? If so, I think I remember seeing the ad. And then your first post not long after. It's been fun following this thread. Enjoy the ride!

Yes sir. Bought it from a nice guy in Dearborn two days before he moved out of State. He wasn't going to take it with him, so it would have been dumped as he'd had it for sale for weeks and weeks with no interest from anyone until I came along. It's been fun for me too!

[Cyrano]

Thanks Cyrano. I searched the forum a little and the general idea I got was 3500 at 50 in top was about right. That puts it at about 14mph per 1000 rpm in 5th, so at 70mph it should be about 5k, 80 mph about 5700 rpm. I'll pay more attention next ride!

Just been out for a sunny evening ridearound and noted that nob on 5,000 rpm gives me an indicated 75mph. Hope this helps.

[BanditRE]

Just been out for a sunny evening ridearound and noted that nob on 5,000 rpm gives me an indicated 75mph. Hope this helps.

That is a help, thanks.

[BanditRE]

Well things are going fairly well. The only issues I seem to have are a sticky speedo, the plugs are too light after running and the clutch isn't quite right.

I can order a colder plug set to see if that cures the problem, or I may need to richen the mix slightly, but I can that figured out.
The speedo looks like it may have to come apart to clean the inside of what I assume is gunk clogging the interior, causing the slow response to changes in speed.
The clutch seems to be more of a mystery:

If I adjust the clutch cable for the best shifting, there doesn't appear to be much free play. I'm not sure if that's a big deal really. Of more concern is the juddery feel as you slip the clutch in first gear pulling away. It disappears with additional engine speed and doesn't seem to be a problem in any other gear. The other problem is heat. The clutch cover and secondary cover are very hot after a ride. I'll have to get a thermometer to know for sure, but by the palm of the hand I'd say the clutch and secondary covers are hotter than the cylinders, if not then very close to the same temperature.

Maybe this is normal for a GS? I don't remember any other bike I've had in the past where the clutch and gearbox got this hot. I would assume at this point that the heat may well be affecting the shifting and clutch feel as well, but I'm just guessing. After a couple of hours of cooling down, the engine is warm but the clutch and secondary covers are still piping hot. This doesn't seem right.

Any comments are welcome, but I'm off the forum now.....

[Steve]

I can order a colder plug set to see if that cures the problem, or I may need to richen the mix slightly, ...

Colder (or hotter) plugs are not a cure for anything, they are just a Band-Aid that will cover up other problems.

If the plugs are white, you have a lean condition, so richen up the carbs.

Now, lean under what circumstances? You need to do proper plug chops to check each circuit in the carb to determine which one(s) you need to adjust.

If you install colder plugs on a lean-running engine, the engine will still run hotter than it should, and your plugs might foul out because they are not getting hot enough. It is MUCH better to get everything running correctly, with no Band-Aids.

.

[BanditRE]

Now, lean under what circumstances? You need to do proper plug chops to check each circuit in the carb to determine which one(s) you need to adjust.

If you install colder plugs on a lean-running engine, the engine will still run hotter than it should, and your plugs might foul out because they are not getting hot enough. It is MUCH better to get everything running correctly, with no Band-Aids.

.

Thanks Steve. I just got done re-reading the VM carb tutorial. I haven't been running the bike hard at all, just fairly low throttle openings for the most part, especially in the last few miles before shutting it down at home. I'll start with the idle circuit, with the pilot fuel screw I assume. Looks like the carbs have to come off the bike to adjust those, which is a bummer. I don't want band-aid fixes. I'll get it right sooner or later.

[Brendan W]

A mostly non-eventful first ride. The clutch was a bit too tight, I had a small gas leak at the petcock I think (but I couldn't verify it when I got back home), and the speedo is acting a little weird. It gets up to speed but it takes a while to get there. I'm assuming the gauges are tight, so I'll see how it reacts over the next couple of rides, but if it doesn't get better I may have to dive into that a little. Does anyone know if there's a thread here that discusses mph to engine speed? Having never ridden this I have nothing to compare to. Once up to speed and the speedo settled, it was indicating about 3500 rpm at 50 mph. I was curious if that was about right.

About the same as mine 3400 at 80 kph. Cold both be wrong I suppose
Lovely looking bike, well done.

[eil]

If I adjust the clutch cable for the best shifting, there doesn't appear to be much free play. I'm not sure if that's a big deal really. Of more concern is the juddery feel as you slip the clutch in first gear pulling away. It disappears with additional engine speed and doesn't seem to be a problem in any other gear. The other problem is heat. The clutch cover and secondary cover are very hot after a ride. I'll have to get a thermometer to know for sure, but by the palm of the hand I'd say the clutch and secondary covers are hotter than the cylinders, if not then very close to the same temperature.

Not sure I understand adjusting the cable "for the best shifting". There should always be a little bit of play in the clutch lever. If not, the clutch cable will always be taut which is bad for it, plus increased risk of clutch slip when you don't want it. I aim for about 1mm where the lever meets the perch.

If you have it adjusted where there is still a little play but it doesn't seem like the clutch is disengaging when you pull the lever all the way in, then there are two other possibilities:

1) Incorrect angle on the clutch pivot lever (or whatever it's called) on the clutch cover. I have mine such that it points straight forward when my clutch lever is about halfway in. If you have it too much to either side, the clutch won't disengage fully.

2) Warped clutch plates. This would also explain the "juddery" feel when slipping the clutch.

It's pretty normal for these bikes to get quite hot after a good run. The fins on the cylinders and head will cool down quicker than the rest of the engine because their job is to dissipate heat as quickly as possible.

[Cyrano]

If you have it adjusted where there is still a little play but it doesn't seem like the clutch is disengaging when you pull the lever all the way in, then there are two other possibilities:

1) Incorrect angle on the clutch pivot lever (or whatever it's called) on the clutch cover. I have mine such that it points straight forward when my clutch lever is about halfway in. If you have it too much to either side, the clutch won't disengage fully.

I adjusted my clutch in much the same way as I too wasn't happy with the way it performed with occasional slipping.

Firstly, slacken the lever right off.

the adjuster on the engine was a bit too close to the limit of adjustment, so I took off the lever and replaced it so the adjustment was close the middle.

Then adjust the lever end to suit.

Much better feel and no slipping no matter how hard I try.

[BanditRE]

Sorry, a poor explanation by me. What I meant by "for the best shifting" is if I provide the "correct" free play, I can't shift from first to neutral at a stop. If I tighten it, I can shift from first to neutral but there's next to no free play. I looked through the shop manual when I reassembled the clutch to see if the angle of the pivot arm on the clutch cover was critical and they don't seem to make mention of it at all. Unfortunately I also took crappy pictures when I took it apart originally so getting a good look at where it was, is impossible. I'm thinking the pivot arm on the clutch cover holds the key to this problem after reading your response and Cyrano's response. Its pointing slightly to the right of center when disengaged and when fully engaged and the clutch lever pulled to the handlebar, its pointing farther left of center. What I'm trying to say, is its not even about the center, I think I need to rotate it slightly to the right, clockwise if looking down on the pivot arm, to provide an even movement.

I'll get the engagment/disengagement thing sorted out and then see if there's still a judder problem. If the clutch cable is too tight and not fully disengaging, I may not be allowing the plates to slip as intended. The steel plates checked out pretty well when I had everything apart, but it doesn't mean they couldn't cause a problem. The other problem may lie in the basket, so I'll have to take a closer look....

Many thanks for the help, guys. I'll report back after I've looked at this a little more.

[eil]

I'm thinking the pivot arm on the clutch cover holds the key to this problem after reading your response and Cyrano's response. Its pointing slightly to the right of center when disengaged and when fully engaged and the clutch lever pulled to the handlebar, its pointing farther left of center. What I'm trying to say, is its not even about the center, I think I need to rotate it slightly to the right, clockwise if looking down on the pivot arm, to provide an even movement.

From your description, it sounds like the position of your pivot arm is probably okay, but it won't hurt to play with it some just to see if it helps.

Sorry if you mentioned it already but when you had the clutch apart, was the clutch basket in good shape? On some bikes, the clutch plate will wear grooves into the basket which eventually causes them to not disengage fully even when you have the lever pulled all the way in. This doesn't really sounds like it's your issue but I thought I would mention it.

[BanditRE]

I'd be surprised if the pivot arm position is that critical. If it was, I'd like to think there'd be some mention of it in the shop manual. Having said that, the difference between somewhat decent operation (albeit too tight a cable) and crappy operation is a matter of a few millimeters of adjustment. The amount of movement the pivot arm will provide within the clutch is a function of how much rotation you can get by pulling on the clutch cable, and the location of the pivot arm will be critical to ensure you have the maximum amount of movement. If I was a smarter guy I'd know where that location needs to be! As I'm not, I'll just have to goof around with it until it works......hopefully.

I had read about wear on the basket last night. To be honest I didn't check it that closely when I had it apart. It has 36000 miles so its not impossible that the basket could have been worn. I'll play with the pivot arm and if that leads nowhere, I'll take the clutch apart again and see how it looks. If the basket looks good, then I can only assume its the steel plates or potentially a problem with the fiber discs.

Thanks for the help

[BanditRE]

I did some tinkering today, I'll report back in a little more detail later with pictures, but I have to go out soon. I played with the location of the arm and I did get the clutch to engage and disengage with about 2mm of free play which is the minimum the shop manual says is ok. Its not great, but it works and it has free play, but finding neutral isn't as easy as I'd like it to be.

With that aside, I took the clutch apart and looked at everything. There is some marking on the basket, but it was too hot to really run my fingers over it. It doesn't look or feel like its actually "worn" with grooves in it, but it is marked. Also similar type of marks on the inside of the basket. I'll post pictures later.