1981 GS450S frankenbike rebuild

[pete]

Ah, I was picking my brain trying to remember where such a short bolt was on the starter motor! I'm not 100% sure but I've been led to believe GS500 starter motors will drop straight in. If that's true that should make it a little easier than finding a 450 one. Alternatively, most of those parts should be available from Suzuki still.

[supertorro]

Not much progress made this weekend. Got a friend who knows a little CAD to mock up some caliper adapters on a 3D printer. Hopefully, that will happen in a week or 2 and I can see how the proposed solution pans out.
Tried to do a little electrical work, testing the stator and regulator. I am a little confused.

The regulator/rectifier is a 3 phase version; indicated by it having 3 yellow wires, 1 each of red, black and green. I should be able to do a diode test (positive or negative) and get a low resistance measure depending on which way I'm testing. I cannot get a reading at all. Just nothing, no matter how I test. Am I just incompetent or is it stuffed?

The stator is where my confusion lies. As I understand, if it were a 3 phase stator it should have 3 yellow wires that would plug into the regulator\rectifier.
This stator has 2 yellow and 1 green wire. Only 1 combination of yellow and green gives me a reading. The other 2 combinations give me no reading. is the stator stuffed too, or is it perhaps a single phase stator?

For reference, here are a quick pic I took of each, whilst unwinding the electrical tape that held everything together.
Regulator


Stator

As you can see the previous owner(s) did not believe in plugs. Electrical tape and twisted wire for everything.
That stator at least did not have carbon or burnt oil anywhere on it, so visually speaking it looks okay. Anyone in the know that might have a bit more info, could you let me know your opinion.

Otherwise I got on with some other bits. Mounted a digital speedo\tacho from Koso, some hand controls and switches, and started pottering around figuring out how I'm going to mount the battery and mUnit. Or more importantly where.
Tried to get the replacement ignition coil installed too, but it needs a bracket too, so will leave that for another day.

[Gorminrider]

That looks like a Honda R/R.

Green is ground, Red is regulated DC output. Black is the voltage sensor wire that tells the R?R when to "regulate" . You might as well twist it up with the red, though Honda would have it to the tail-light...Yellows are indeed for the stator.

if your stator is the Suzuki one, the wires are so dirty I can't see what colours they were but I could tell you what they should be- BUT it's moot. Ignore the colours and just attach the R/R yellows to the 3 stator wires. If it doesn't charge thereafter, you have a faulty R/R or stator.

[supertorro]

phew! what a weekend of attempting an engine build. There I was thinking I would slap the engine together and I'd have it buttoned up and done on Saturday, and then installed on Sunday....

That didn't happen. I got the crankshaft and balancer reground to spec with new under size bearings, so I was super keen to get building this weekend.

Queue the optimistic photo of everything that needed to be put together:


So I got cracking, first peeling off all the painters tape on from all the parts. It had been left on so that the internals didn't get full of dust whilst waiting for all the parts to be ready.
Started putting everything the crankshaft, gearbox and cases together.
Gearbox works: check
Crankshaft spins freely: check
Balancer spins freely: check

Result: In business

Then I start clamping down the cases, tightening the bolts to finger tight all round, and then just what I can manage by holding a ratchet around the head.

Gearbox: check
Crankshaft: stiff (hmm -> possible because of new bearings?)

Crank it down to torque spec. Crankshaft doesn't spin for love or money.
Okay, I'm a noob. I did something wring, it was inevitable. Disassemble, double check. Lube all bearings.
Crankcases together, crankshaft spins.
Torque the bolts, crankshaft no spinnee.

And so proceeded the really annoying day of assembly/disassembly trying to figure out what had gone wrong.
Eventually started assembling with just one component at a time, and got to the point where the balancer shaft was the likely culprit.
Removed the new bearings and found the best of the old bearings. Re-assemble and torque...et voila! All is good with the world.
Right. Sunday is my day. This engine build is getting done.

Start buttoning up all the little bits: shift lever, oil pan, etc.
Time to move onto the pistons. Get the jugs oiled up and gasket in place, and try to lower onto the pistons. One piston won't go in.....
Eventually I realise the oil ring is not moving at all and seems to be an issue. And in trying to free it up, I break said oil ring. So now it really is an issue.

Fine. Remove piston and inspect. Looks like the wrist pin orifice has been damaged somehow and is clamping the oil ring in place.


As an aside any idea what causes such a burr in the piston? Looks almost like someone used a blunt drill and the metal was pushed out of the way instead of cut.

Lovely. Whip out the files and start working away at the burr of metal that's causing a problem. Eventually work it away enough to have a smooth surface and allow the oil ring to move freely.



Okay, Well top end build halts here. So now I have a conundrum: what is the appropriate move next? Clearly a new set of rings. I assume it's not a good idea to match new and used rings, even if you could get just an oil ring. And I'm guessing I will need to know what size the current rings are? I checked for numbers, but only the 2nd ring had a number 11575782. Does that mean anything to anyone?
Is there any merit in building the engine to test compression? I imagine the compression would be less without the oil ring, but could it be a useful measure? Let me know some thoughts.

As the top end is effectively stalled, it's still possible to continue elsewhere. Let's look at the clutch. Maybe I can at least finish off that side. Examine clutch basket. Oh look, so many notches from the clutch plates.


Out with the files again! After a bit of work got them flattened out okay.


And that's it for today. Not the finish I had envisioned, but I guess some progress was made.
Now to figure out what all the loose little bits are for..

[supertorro]

So whilst I still have a little daylight left, I thought I would try out some style options on you folks. The basic idea is a street tracker from this old GS 450.

The colour scheme has not been cast in stone yet. Initially I was going with a majority white on the tank, with some green and gold strips, but seeing the white tank in the daylight is making me rethink it. For the moment I'm going to park the colour scheme and just imagine the lines. To that end see the pics below:



Clearly there are some bits on the frame that need to be modified. Much as I hate to just take a grinder to everything and start hacking, the seat definitely needs to be lowered down to the frame tubes. And a little of the excess frame lopped off the back. At this stage no idea is a bad one, so go ahead: tell me I'm 20 years out of date.

[steve murdoch]

Since you asked....do you have room for the rear shock reservoir to be facing the back?
The angle of the muffler should be about halfway between the two photos, definitely lower the seat and lop the tail off the frame.
Green paint should only be on a Kawi.

[supertorro]

There is a tab on the right hand side of the frame that the shock will foul against, otherwise the reservoir would be facing backwards.
When I get to the point of finalising the layout I may cut the tab off if it isn't necessary for anything.

[supertorro]

So this project took a bit of a backseat for a few weeks whilst many things were going on. South Africa is under lock down now, so while I am at home every day, I have assembled the bottom end.

Right:

Left:

the top end will have to wait until I receive the new pistons. I took some measurements of the state of the engine, see below (in mm)

		Left				Right
	Gap	Width	Height		Gap	Width	Height
Top Ring	1.35	2.66	1.2		4.42	2.7	1.2
Middle Ring	0.2	2.96	1.2		0.35	2.9	1.2
Piston Clearance	0.4				0.4

This is the first time I've delved into an engine and measured anything like this.
That the engine is worn is no surprise really, but what is surprising is the ring gap on the right top ring: 4.4mm.... That is huge (to my mind). How does it even get that big?
Never mind measuring with feeler gauge, not enough meat for that. Had to go to the vernier to measure.
Anyway, I kind of like the mostly silver with black and gold highlight. I will be honest: the clutch actuator adjustment cover I painted black by mistake. Still, I think it actually looks okay

[supertorro]

It's been pretty quiet for a month or 2 since the country wide lockdown. Now that things are finally opening up, it seems most stores don't have any supplies yet.
So I've been playing at painting the tank. I'm pretty much making it up as I go along.

I'm trying out a green base coat and some white highlights to break it up a little.
At first blush, that's a lot of green


With a bit of highlighting it looks much better. Just some clean up required, looks like the rookie that taped it up didn't do a bang up job.


We'll see how this goes with a cleanup and re-assess.

Will likely need something on the sides of the tank. Still a ways to go before that becomes an issue

[LeT]

That green is lovely. I think some early seventies Suzuki's were in green. Was it a GT125 twin colour? Ignore the kwaker jibe. Colours do not belong to any bike company. Colours were around before motorcycles. And it's your bike, your choice. Enjoy.

[supertorro]

No manufacturer specific colour. Just something available from the local hardware store. As I'm spray painting for the first time I decided to use cheap rattle cans for painting, so I can focus on getting all the other steps right. With these rattle cans I don't feel too bad when I cock it up and have to redo something. If nothing else, it has taught me patience. Not sure what would qualify me to move up to better quality paint, but it's not important right now.
Didn't know any of the Suzukis were green before, but I didn't research whether that had been the case. Will do now. If it happens to come close it'll be a lucky coincidence.

[LeT]

Suzuki T500 Titan green and white, similar idea to yours

http://www.bikesrestored.com/14407/suzuki-t500-titan-1970-2/suzukit500-1970-3-4/

[supertorro]

In the last 2 weeks some good news: the replacement pistons and valves arrived. So it was off to the engine builder to get the barrels rebored for the 73.5 pistons. Apparently this bumps the total cc to 480. Cylinders back in place and timing gear all in. So this brings me to next few questions:

The exhaust cam has the #2 mark missing (see pic) and I wanted to confirm the number of pins from #1 to #3. According to the manual I have, the should be 18 chain link pins from #2 to #3 marks. And from what images I have found online, it seems there would be 8 pins from #1 to #2 mark. Giving me a total of 26 pins from #1 to #3, and that should get my timing right. Can anyone confirm the number of pins from #1 to #3 mark, that would be a big help.



Second question: with regard to the valve clearances. The manual indicates clearance between 0.03 and 0.08mm. Can anyone confirm this? The measured clearance I got on my valves are:


Right Side:
- In 0.1 - 0.15 mm
- Ex 0.35 - 0.40 mm

Left Side:
- In 0.15 - 0.2 mm
- Ex 0.1 - 0.15 mm

These numbers seem a long way out so wondering if this should hightlight some special considerations. Or is it just a case of measure the shims that are in there and get suitable replacements.

Now to find shims locally

[supertorro]

Brake Adapters

It been a while since having moved forward with this project, but finally got the adapters in place and mounted.
Simply used a 12mm plate of 6082 Aluminium Alloy and cut out some shapes. Thanks to a friend who mocked up a plate and 3d printed a template, this was fairly straight-forward.
Just a bit of drilling and sanding resulted the finished alpha version.
Given I have no specialist tools for some things, I used a hacksaw to cut out the rough shape and then a drill to perforate the plate along the basic shape. Next time I think I will spend a bit more effort trying to find an alternative solution.
Maybe find someone with a waterjet to just make my life easier.

Marking out the shape


And all cut out


Once the shape was roughed out, I went at it with an angle grinder and some files. Took a bit of time to get through this, but didn't turn out half bad in the end:


My one concern is where the caliper slide pins have been threaded into the plate. As you can see from the above picture the pin only threads through about halfway, so I will get some new pins made up at some point that fully engages the available threads in the plate.

But for the moment, as the bike is not moving, they will do.