Best Rider Ever: Hailwood? Ago? Rossi?...

[steve murdoch]

not a hi-jack but a diversion....
Jack here is a neat article about one of the snowmobile races.
You guys were a lot tougher back then than we are now.

http://www.snowgoer.com/snowmobile-racing-events/cross-country-events/flashback-duhamel-shares-the-secrets-of-i-500-victory/1013/

[OldTimeBiker]

As great as Mike Hailwood, Ago, Joey Dunlop, John Surtees, etc. etc. are They were only road racers. The truly greatest motorcycle racers are much more talented than those who only race on pavement! I have three riders that I would rate high above all those mentioned. First is Kenny Roberts. He was extremely talented and could do it all in the high speed sports. In road racing there is no denying his talent but his ability to pitch a flat track bike around was just as amazing! He rates third on my list because of his talent and "fire in the belly" determination to win...he wasn't a very nice guy and didn't endear himself to others, especially those he looked at as his inferiors but, his talent and desire was outstanding.

My second rider is Gary Nixon...Another rider whose tenacity was super human...the only type of race he never won (at the national level) was American style (dirt) TT steeplechase. Because of injury he never realized his full potential but he continued to bounce back and stay competitive LONG after a lesser man would have quit. The way he was screwed out of the World F 750 Championship was a crime but, he took it in stride and continued to race competitively in vintage events into his '60's!

The rider I pick as the greatest of all time is Dick "Bugsy" Mann. He was the consumate motorcycle racer and he succeeded at every discipline he tried. Not only was he one of the toughest flat track and road race riders America ever produced but he was instrumental in getting motocross going in the USA and he raced the best Europe had to offer and beat them at a time when he was at least 10 years their senior! In addition he was an excellent off road rider with exceptional skill in enduro and ISDT (AKA ISDE) type competition. After a long career as a pro track racer and at an age when most guys have long left motorcycle racing behind Dick qualified for and competed in the ISDT and won a Bronze medal. On top of all of that...during most of his career he raced as a privateer, which makes his accomplishments all the more amazing!

Them's my 3 cents, such as they are!

[850 Combat]

I agree Dick Mann.

He medaled in the ISDT

He won road races, including against Hailwood

He won Nationals on mile dirt ovals

He won Nationals on half mile ovals.

He won Short Track Nationals

He won TT Nationals

He won Motocross Nationals.

Add in the fact that he built a lot of his own machines.

He had a real knack for going fast enough to win, and rife easily enough to make his bike run at the finish. His wins at Daytona in 1970 and 1971 are a true testament to that. I believe his was the only Honda running at the finish of the 1970 Daytona 200. Hailwood's Honda, of course was not. His BSA outlasted Hailwood's at the '71 Daytona 200. And he was like 40 years old.

He designed the frame for the OSSA flat tracker, and the Yankee 500 twin dual sport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Mann

There is a book on him: "Mann of his time". a pretty good read.

http://www.amazon.com/Mann-His-Time-Ed-Youngblood/dp/188431340X

My second favorite would be Gary Nixon, then maybe Mark Brelsford. Mert Lawill belongs in there too though.

As great as Mike Hailwood, Ago, Joey Dunlop, John Surtees, etc. etc. are They were only road racers. The truly greatest motorcycle racers are much more talented than those who only race on pavement! I have three riders that I would rate high above all those mentioned. First is Kenny Roberts. He was extremely talented and could do it all in the high speed sports. In road racing there is no denying his talent but his ability to pitch a flat track bike around was just as amazing! He rates third on my list because of his talent and "fire in the belly" determination to win...he wasn't a very nice guy and didn't endear himself to others, especially those he looked at as his inferiors but, his talent and desire was outstanding.

My second rider is Gary Nixon...Another rider whose tenacity was super human...the only type of race he never won (at the national level) was American style (dirt) TT steeplechase. Because of injury he never realized his full potential but he continued to bounce back and stay competitive LONG after a lesser man would have quit. The way he was screwed out of the World F 750 Championship was a crime but, he took it in stride and continued to race competitively in vintage events into his '60's!

The rider I pick as the greatest of all time is Dick "Bugsy" Mann. He was the consumate motorcycle racer and he succeeded at every discipline he tried. Not only was he one of the toughest flat track and road race riders America ever produced but he was instrumental in getting motocross going in the USA and he raced the best Europe had to offer and beat them at a time when he was at least 10 years their senior! In addition he was an excellent off road rider with exceptional skill in enduro and ISDT (AKA ISDE) type competition. After a long career as a pro track racer and at an age when most guys have long left motorcycle racing behind Dick qualified for and competed in the ISDT and won a Bronze medal. On top of all of that...during most of his career he raced as a privateer, which makes his accomplishments all the more amazing!

Them's my 3 cents, such as they are!

[rudeman]

King Kenny for my vote.

KR for me too.

He used to wrap duct tape around his knees when racing to keep from wearing through the leather while hanging off. Soon after he started doing this the European GP fans began wrapping their knees with "Kenny Roberts Tape".

It absolutely killed the European racers that an American could so completely dominate "their" sport the way King Kenny did. There are stories about KR having to cut his own rain grooves so he could race on a track wet from rain. He asked the tire vendors present to sell him some rain tires but they refused, forcing him to cut grooves in his Goodyears. I think he went on to win that race.

From Wikipedia: "In a 13-year professional racing career, Roberts won two Grand National Championships and three 500 cc world championships including 32 Grand Nationals and 24 Grand Prix road races. He also won the Daytona 200 three times and was a six-time winner of the Laguna Seca 200. He was the second AMA rider after Dick Mann to accomplish the Grand Slam of winning all five events of the Grand National Championship."

[RichDesmond]

While I don't think you can really say who "the best" is/was, I've been following racing for almost 40 years and have a list of guys I'd nominate.

Kenny Roberts - There is no more important figure in the history of the sport. He dominated as a rider, changed the way people rode, dragged the business of GP racing into the modern world, made racing much safer. 300 million people watch MotoGP today, that would be unthinkable without KR.

Freddie Spencer - Beat Roberts in a straight up fight in '83, and then did the 250/500 double in '85. Maybe the greatest raw talent ever?

Lawson/Rainey/Schwantz - hard to separate these guys, you could make an argument for any of them. Forced to choose, I'd go with Lawson.

Marc Marquez - This kid is the real deal. I saw him in Austin last year when he won his first GP and was just astounded. I predicted then that he'd win the championship that year, and go on to dominate. Lot of people thought I was nuts.

No, Rossi and Doohan don't make the list.

Of the non-roadracers.

Bubba Shobert/Ricky Graham - Again, guys you can't separate. Their battles in the mid 80s are the greatest racing the world has ever seen. Graham was the best pure dirt tracker I ever saw, it's a shame he couldn't overcome his personal demons.

Ricky Carmichael - For years I said I'd never see a better motocrosser than Bob Hannah. I was wrong.

[wymple]

Freddy Spencer had superior equipment as Honda was spending a ton of money for the PR end of it. He was of course, one of the all time best, but on equal bikes Kenny was invincible.

[RichDesmond]

Freddy Spencer had superior equipment as Honda was spending a ton of money for the PR end of it. He was of course, one of the all time best, but on equal bikes Kenny was invincible.

Not really true, Spencer's Honda was more agile but Robert's bike had better acceleration and top speed. Which was better depended on the track.

Honda has always spent more money, that hasn't always translated to a better bike. The 84 Honda was a pile of monkey dung.

[Big T]

More importantly, the Honda was way easier to push start and Roberts was often far behind by the 1st corner. The OW he rode was the pig at that time, costing him the 80,81 & 82 titles. The 83 OW was better, but Freddie beat him by two points. But Freddie only excelled on pavement

Agostini doubled in 350/500 5 times, offset by his bike being superior many of those years. He also beat the Hondas with Hailwood for years

Greatest?

All around - Roberts , Mann

Pavement = Roberts, Ago, Surtees (he won the GP title also), Rainey, Bill Ivy, Barry Sheene

Motocross - Joel Robert, by far the greatest