how to replace engine cover bolts: advice please

[matt_gs450]

I just received two sets of hex bolts from Z1 Enterprises. I am going to replace the engine cover bolts with these bolts on my GS 450 L and GS 450 T.
part: http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1171

What I want to know is:

* what should I do to prepare the screws and the holes before tightening
- cleaning? lubrication? what chemicals to use for either

* there isn't torque information specific to these bolts. should I just give it a couple good whacks with the impact driver?

Thanks in advance,
Matt

[quakeholio]

Ok, little story time. I've worked on a diesel tractor engine where the pistons were frozen in place, bad rust sesure on all four pistons. Couldn't turn the engine over for the life of me, so I tryed some PB blast I had. After a couple of minutes the pistons were breaking free, and starting to move. Some PB on the screws should help get them loose, use the impact for further motivation, and life should be good.

One note on the impact driver, I will NEVER use them to tighten a screw. In my opinion they are to get screws out that are almost a lost cause. I would also not figure on using them for allen bolts.

[matt_gs450]

thanks qh. still need a couple more answers.

Good point about the impact driver and the hex bolts. So I'll tighten them firmly with an allen wrench. I'll get some PB blast if the screws don't come loose.

Still wondering:

* how (or if) I should clean the bolt holes?
* is there anything I should put on the bolts before fastening them (WD-40?)

[redtires]

Really, to clean the threads out well, you should simply run a tap through them and then blow them out w/ a little compressed air. I pesonally would not use WD-40 as it is really designed to loosen stuck parts and displace water. Some medium loc-tite will protect the threads from water/corrosion and also will keep your bolts nice and tight in light of any vibration while riding.

[bwringer]

NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOO!

Please do NOT use blue (or red) Loctite on ANY threads going into aluminum! When you remove the fasteners, the Loctite will do a nice job of tearing up the threads.

You do need a dab of the gray or copper anti-sieze paste. Always use anti-sieze when you install steel or stainless steel bolts into aluminum. Most case bolts are 6mm (bolts are always specified by thread diameter, not head diameter) and take only 6-7 ft-lbs of torque. This is not very tight at all -- many torque wrenches don't even go this low. I use a t-handle allen wrench and one hand to apply moderate torque. Case bolts and valve cover bolts will not vibrate loose when torqued correctly.

On bolts where there's no gasket, like the two 5mm bolts holding on each of the round covers over the ends of the valve cover, there is a chance the bolts could vibrate loose. On these, bolts, you can use the green low strength Loctite, which you can now find in any Autozone.

Carb bolts get a very light coating of anti-sieze only. There are one or two screws holding throttle bracket on the sides of the carbs that get the green Loctite.

The blue medium Loctite should only be used on steel threads going into steel, NEVER on aluminum. The red high-strength loctite should also only be used where manufacturer specified on critical high-grade steel/steel threads, and will require impact and/or heat to loosen.

You can use a tap to clean out the threads, but only if they need it -- maybe some clueless PO slobbered Loctite all over them. Otherwise, there's usually no need. Use a light lubricant, reverse and clean the tap often, and clean out the threads afterwards with brake cleaner and compressed air.

[matt_gs450]

Thanks BWR (and others)!

That's great and detailed information. It's amazing the amount of thought that is required for even the most (seemingly) simple of tasks.

-Matt

[redtires]

NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOO!

Please do NOT use blue (or red) Loctite on ANY threads going into aluminum! When you remove the fasteners, the Loctite will do a nice job of tearing up the threads.

You do need a dab of the gray or copper anti-sieze paste. Always use anti-sieze when you install steel or stainless steel bolts into aluminum. Most case bolts are 6mm (bolts are always specified by thread diameter, not head diameter) and take only 6-7 ft-lbs of torque. This is not very tight at all -- many torque wrenches don't even go this low. I use a t-handle allen wrench and one hand to apply moderate torque. Case bolts and valve cover bolts will not vibrate loose when torqued correctly.

On bolts where there's no gasket, like the two 5mm bolts holding on each of the round covers over the ends of the valve cover, there is a chance the bolts could vibrate loose. On these, bolts, you can use the green low strength Loctite, which you can now find in any Autozone.

Carb bolts get a very light coating of anti-sieze only. There are one or two screws holding throttle bracket on the sides of the carbs that get the green Loctite.

The blue medium Loctite should only be used on steel threads going into steel, NEVER on aluminum. The red high-strength loctite should also only be used where manufacturer specified on critical high-grade steel/steel threads, and will require impact and/or heat to loosen.

You can use a tap to clean out the threads, but only if they need it -- maybe some clueless PO slobbered Loctite all over them. Otherwise, there's usually no need. Use a light lubricant, reverse and clean the tap often, and clean out the threads afterwards with brake cleaner and compressed air.

Yep your right!!! That was a total brainfart on my part. Anti-seize IS the way to go.

[Hap Call]

NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOO!

Please do NOT use blue (or red) Loctite on ANY threads going into aluminum! When you remove the fasteners, the Loctite will do a nice job of tearing up the threads.

Generally good advice but there are situations that require the use of LocTite on aluminum. The Suzuki shop manual even requires the use of low and medium LocTite on several critical bolts on the GS1100 during the assembly of your engine, such as the bottom cam chain guide holder, starter motor mounting bolts, the bolts that retain the plates behind the clutch basket, the rear cam chain guide, etc. While most are low strength, several are medium strength. Suzuki even has part numbers for the entire range (low, medium, super, and super duper) and it's made by LocTite with Suzuki packaging.

But in this application I agree with bwinger. The anti-sieze (I use the copper) is the way to go. As he said, use sparingly or you could have hydraulic lock and actually crack the case when you tighten the bolt. Also, I would avoid the use of the tap unless you meet with resistance when you are putting the bolts in or if the bolts that came out are already crossed threaded. Every time you use a tap you lose case material.

[themess]

Question: How would brake cleaner work for cleaning out threads? (Assuming that the threads aren't damaged) Or WD-40? I'm thinking that the spray would get out oil and grit, and the carrier would evaporate quickly, leaving clean threads. Then anti-seize....

[bwringer]

Generally good advice but there are situations that require the use of LocTite on aluminum. The Suzuki shop manual even requires the use of low and medium LocTite on several critical bolts on the GS1100 during the assembly of your engine, such as the bottom cam chain guide holder, starter motor mounting bolts, the bolts that retain the plates behind the clutch basket, the rear cam chain guide, etc. While most are low strength, several are medium strength. Suzuki even has part numbers for the entire range (low, medium, super, and super duper) and it's made by LocTite with Suzuki packaging.

But in this application I agree with bwinger. The anti-sieze (I use the copper) is the way to go. As he said, use sparingly or you could have hydraulic lock and actually crack the case when you tighten the bolt. Also, I would avoid the use of the tap unless you meet with resistance when you are putting the bolts in or if the bolts that came out are already crossed threaded. Every time you use a tap you lose case material.

Yup, I guess I was just thinking of replacing case bolts, not a complete teardown. Good point!

So let's amend that to don't use Loctite on steel threads going into aluminum -- unless the manual tells you to. Mmmkaay?

[redtires]

Yup, I guess I was just thinking of replacing case bolts, not a complete teardown. Good point!

So let's amend that to don't use Loctite on steel threads going into aluminum -- unless the manual tells you to. Mmmkaay?

Mmmmmkay Mr. Macky!!!! LMAO