1980 GS450S - running tubeless tires w/ tubes, tubeless w/o tubes, or tubed?

[seinwave]

Hi all. Picked up a 1980 GS450S recently and the tires are in desperate need of replacement.

I know the stock wheels (cast) were 100% made to run with tubed tires. However, the picking for tubed tires are looking pretty slim, mostly restricting me to "vintage"-style tires that I suspect are manufactured on the cheap for looks over performance and longevity. Going tubeless would open up my options a ton.

I also know you "can" usually run tubeless tires on designed-for-tube wheels as long as you have a tube in there (and downgrade the speed rating by one notch). Allegedly, some people also run tubeless tires w/o tubes on these wheels too. However, I also know that my wheels lack the 'bead lock' (or w/e it's called) intended to keep tubeless tires on the wheel in case of a blowout.

I'd like advice on:
- How big of a risk am I running if I put tubeless tires plus tubes on these wheels?
- Is installing tubeless w/ tubes like this particularly tricky, or sensitive to improper installation? I'm planning on putting these tires on myself and understand that could up the risk profile.
- Do you have any recommendations for tubeless tires for these wheels? For tubed tires?

[Who Dat?]

Brace yourself, the replies are going to range from "No problem" to "You are going to kill yourself and everyone else you crash into."

Most "tubeless" tires can also be run with a tube. You will likely be safer overall with the tube, but, as you suspect, many have successfully run completely tubeless. If you choose to go that route, be aware that you will likely need to drill the hole for the valve stem to a larger diameter, but DON'T use a typical car-style valve stem. Get one that uses a mechanical thread to lock it to the rim. While you are at it, look into getting a 90° stem for the rear wheel, makes access a LOT easier.

[rphillips]

Dang, there's boo-coos of conversations about this, and know if there is a definite answer.. As far as I know, legal rule is without wheels stamped "tubeless" use either tube type or tubeless tires, but always put tubes in. Me, on any cast wheel, I'll never use tubes, just tubeless tires mounted with no tubes... Now, let the controversy begin.

[first timer]

my simple rule of thumb, if the wheel has a safety bead run tubeless. If it doesn't have a bead then tubes.

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[LAB3]

^^^^^ What he said! If the rim isn't set up to seal a tubeless tire then run a tube.

Indeed there have been countless threads on this. One line of thinking says the early cast rims where porous and could leak, the fix being painting the inside of the rim. Also, in early tubeless rims there where no other choices than to run tube tires because tubeless had yet to hit the market.

Take a tire off and look at the rim, if it does have the safety bead then paint it inside and go tubeless. If it doesn't have the safety bead go tubed.

[Nessism]

First off, a tube CAN be used in tires denoted "tubeless." If you research on the various tire manufacturers websites, you will learn as much from them, not me.

Secondly, some early "tubeless" wheels for both Suzuki and Kawasaki (not sure about Honda or Yamaha) did NOT have the "safety bead." My KZ750 is one such bike. While not ideal, this should be at least a data point in favor of conversion.

There are lots of GS members running tubeless on their tube type wheels, after fitting tubeless valve stems. I won't pass judgement either way, this topic has been discussed countless times already...

[roeme]

Tubes are cheap enough. It doesn't make economical sense to omit them on tube rims.

Sure, tubeless might work fine and there seem to be enough reports of people that are still fine (you don't know their riding style though).

Question is; do you feel lucky enough to bet whatever it'll cost when it goes wrong...on saving a few quids?

[rphillips]

For me economics has nothing to do with it. Puncture on rd. with tubeless, 10 min. plug, a shot of air, and on your way. Have you ever had a flat on a tube type, out on the side of the rd.?.. A lot of work and time., Not good. My opinion, if you're not comfortable using tubeless on your cast wheels not marked "Tubeless", normally you can find wheels marked "Tubeless" relatively available and reasonable priced.... As always, just my opinion.

[Rob S.]

Pirelli Sport Demons with tubes.

[seinwave]

Thanks for the information, everyone.

I want to say that the economics of tubes/no tubes doesn't factor into my decision at all; $20-40 dollars is going to feel like a drop in the pond for this hobby. I'm more concerned about what I've read with regards to how using tubes causes higher heat build-up, and therefore you should treat the tire as if its speed rating was one notch less. Not that I'm likely to be hitting 130 (or 112, honestly) now or in the foreseeable future, but more safety margin is always better.

[roeme]

I'd go out on a limb and say that you don't need to worry about a heat buildup with your bike&situation...or do you plan on racing? IMHO you lose a higher fraction of safety by running tubeless tires on a tube wheel, than having a slightly cooler tire.

As for the roadside repairs, that's a valid point. But in that case like said, I'd convert to tubeless wheels in the same go.

Though my last puncture was a decade ago, and in the aughts the Africa Twins ran just fine with tubes in much harsher environments?

But again, it's tradeoffs all the way I guess.

[rphillips]

I do remember seeing many times tires marked "Tubeless"... then somewhere on same tire in smaller letters it says "on tube type rims use tube". I haven't noticed that lately, but haven't paid any attention.

[Baatfam]

Use this tool to modify the rim for a new valve stem...




Mount tire and go...

[rphillips]

OOhhh, I've seen those bits, they really make a nice flat, and factory looking improvement. I've never had nor used one, just put the new stems and the thick rubber washers in and luckily no problems and good to go.