Using GS1150 bars on GSXR triple tree

[posplayr]

Thank you for all the time you are putting into educating me Jim.

I have asked again on gixer.com. Will wait and see what comes up this time.

I see what you mean now. It is different to what I proposed and would obviously require the removal of all of the controls from the clip-ons in order to be able to screw the assemblies onto and off the ends of the GSXR forks each time an oil change was required. Not quite what I was after.

I have had another go at doing some drawings of what it was that I was proposing. Hopefully it will make it clearer.

The first pic shows just the GSXR fork and cap on the left and on the right side it is shown again but with the section of 37mm fork tube welded onto the GSXR cap nut.

The next pic shows the fork (with the extension welded on) set into the GSXR top triple on the left side of the pic, while on the right side it shows the 1150 clip-on sat down over the top of the extended fork cap and screwed onto the triple (fixed the same as on the 1150 triple).

Hopefully that makes it easier to understand how I envisaged doing it.

I am hoping that a good welder can do the weld ok. Will also need to butcher the 1150 top triple to cut off the instrument mounts so they can be welded onto the GSXR top triple (same as you did on yours)

Colin,
Here is a standard 1.5" x 0.25" thick piece of Aluminum tubing. That means that the ID is 1.5-0.25x2 = 1.0" and I measure the nut on the adjuster at 0.96" maximum diagonal distance. So if you could pick up a short section of this have it welded then the
1.5" OD is 38.4mm so the clip on should slip over with only a little persuasion.

Extruded Aluminum Bare Tube 6061 T6

and you have it welded the clip on should fit nicely. a 1/4" thick peice of aluminum will be very strong.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4362&step=4&showunits=inches&id=71&top_cat=0

This is basically a cheap 38mm fork extension to a 41mm fork.

A couple comments about your drawing

As you mentioned you cant use a peice of 37mm steel fork to weld to the aluminum adjuster.

You are welding aluminum to aluminum so you need a much larger "fillet" weld. If you try to weld on the outside, you will disturb the outer edge and the threads.

With a 0.25" thick tube coming over the top of the adjuster nut, you can fill the entire inside of the adjuster with weld very easily making it very strong and still not affect the center adjuster screw.

The net result will still look just like your final picture, just welded on the inside.

You will want to leave enough of the nut showing so you can still put a socket in there otherwise getting the adjuster down against the spring will be tough unless you make a some special tool



Jim

P.S. I just checked about using a 41mm clip on; it doesnt work as well you can only get a 1 5/8" tubing that is 0.125" thick; not nearly as strong

[posplayr]

Thanks Dan and Jim. Lots more food for thought.

I hadn't thought about welding the clip-ons to the triple.

If I can get rotors cheap enough I guess that would free the purse strings a bit.

Jim, Can you expand on the availability of $50-75 rotors? If ebay, I have been looking for a few months now and have only seen a single front rotor http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWAX:IT for $39.

I am guessing that the cost of longer fork stancions would be prohibitive (for me) but would like to know more. Who is this 'Frank' you mentioned.


Just to be clear. My idea of welding a section of 37mm fork to the top of the GSXR fork cap is a no go because.......?... of the difficulty of welding the two materials clean enough? Not having any welding experience it seemed to me that it would be easy.

That set of bars and controls on ebay looks perfect. They are definitely higher than mine. While not a bad price I need to save my money for the more essential must haves (like rotors, sprocket carriers and all the new bearings needed etc)... though they look perfect and I may kick myself if I let them go..... Ummmmm

http://www.frankmain.qpg.com/

[posplayr]

Thanks again. Yes they are a bit cheaper. I like the wave rotors and will contact them to see when/if they will discount them again.

Maybe I should grab both of the single front discs on ebay (don't know why the one you found didn't show up on my searches???.

They appear to be for the same side and are very different to each other.

The one on the right is an EBC floating rotor 86-88 GSXR1100 MD3004 (they come left and right). The buttons come off and the rotor can be sanded with an orbital to clean off that rust. These have very good braking but will rust if you let them get wet or sit in the weather.

The left one is stock, I would not mix and match but for the cost it is worth buying both that way, when another comes up you will get what you need plus be working on a set of spares.

I would check the thickness of the stock one; they are often worn. Minimum is 4.0mm

[Colin Green]

Colin,
Here is a standard 1.5" x 0.25" thick piece of Aluminum tubing. That means that the ID is 1.5-0.25x2 = 1.0" and I measure the nut on the adjuster at 0.96" maximum diagonal distance. So if you could pick up a short section of this have it welded then the
1.5" OD is 38.4mm so the clip on should slip over with only a little persuasion.

Extruded Aluminum Bare Tube 6061 T6

and you have it welded the clip on should fit nicely. a 1/4" thick peice of aluminum will be very strong.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4362&step=4&showunits=inches&id=71&top_cat=0

This is basically a cheap 38mm fork extension to a 41mm fork.

A couple comments about your drawing

As you mentioned you cant use a peice of 37mm steel fork to weld to the aluminum adjuster.

You are welding aluminum to aluminum so you need a much larger "fillet" weld. If you try to weld on the outside, you will disturb the outer edge and the threads.

With a 0.25" thick tube coming over the top of the adjuster nut, you can fill the entire inside of the adjuster with weld very easily making it very strong and still not affect the center adjuster screw.

The net result will still look just like your final picture, just welded on the inside.

You will want to leave enough of the nut showing so you can still put a socket in there otherwise getting the adjuster down against the spring will be tough unless you make a some special tool



Jim

P.S. I just checked about using a 41mm clip on; it doesnt work as well you can only get a 1 5/8" tubing that is 0.125" thick; not nearly as strong

Thanks again Jim, you really are a top bloke helping out like this.

My 21mm (one mm too small) socket is 27.65mm OD so I figure a 22mm socket will be 29mm. I can get 37mm Ali tube with 3mm or 5mm wall thickness. (4mm would be too tight for the socket allowing .5mm tolerance for misalignment) so the 37mm 0.125" may have to do (it's only going to be about 20mm (3/4") high so shouldn't be taking too much cantilever loading (tension on one side) and as you say the weld depth could be made fairly healthy (as much as 5mm) effectively reducing the cantilever to 15mm.

I can also get 38.1mm OD with 4.8mm wall (= 28.5mm ID). If I filed the faces of the nut back about .5mm I could then use my 21mm (27.7mmOD) socket. I would also need to take a rats tail file to the riser bases (checked them at 36.8mm).

If you really think 3mm wall is too thin (try bending a dime) I will go with the 38.1mm 4.8mm wall, but would much prefer to run the easier path with the 37mm tube.

http://www.ullrich-aluminium.co.nz/extruded_round_tube2.php

[Colin Green]

The one on the right is an EBC floating rotor 86-88 GSXR1100 MD3004 (they come left and right). The buttons come off and the rotor can be sanded with an orbital to clean off that rust. These have very good braking but will rust if you let them get wet or sit in the weather.

The left one is stock, I would not mix and match but for the cost it is worth buying both that way, when another comes up you will get what you need plus be working on a set of spares.

I would check the thickness of the stock one; they are often worn. Minimum is 4.0mm

Cheers.

The fact that he hasn't responded to shipping and thickness inquiries is one of the reasons I hadn't already taken it. I have had another go an hour ago so fingers crossed.

http://www.frankmain.qpg.com/

Awesome link. I will send them an email and hope that the pricing isn't too bad.

[posplayr]

Thanks again Jim, you really are a top bloke helping out like this.

My 21mm (one mm too small) socket is 27.65mm OD so I figure a 22mm socket will be 29mm. I can get 37mm Ali tube with 3mm or 5mm wall thickness. (4mm would be too tight for the socket allowing .5mm tollerance for misalignment) so the 37mm 0.125" may have to do (it's only going to be about 20mm (3/4") high so shouldn't be taking too much cantilever loading (tension on one side) and as you say the weld depth could be made fairly healthy (as much as 6mm).

I can also get 38.1mm OD with 4.8mm wall (= 28.5mm ID). If I filed the faces of the nut back about .5mm I could then use my 21mm (27.7mmOD) socket. I would also need to take a rats tail file to the riser bases (checked them at 36.8mm).

If you really think 3mm wall is too thin (try bending a dime) I will go with the 38.1mm 4.8mm wall, but would much prefer to run the easier path with the 37mm tube.

http://www.ullrich-aluminium.co.nz/e...ound_tube2.php

Personally I would forego the socket and figure a different way to get the adjuster threaded in if it means reducing the wall thinkness that much.
Even if the welder has no problem welding a 3mm thik wall tubing to thick peice of metal, how much force you think it is going to take to bend a 3mm think tubing if you have to lift up your bike with the handle bars? Jerk the bike up and you now have a bent fork if you dont break off that tab with the bolt holding the clip on to the triple.

Your analogy of bending a dime is not relevant. Different material and doesn't consider the lever arm the clip-on has against the thin tubing.
Do you think people make aluminum fork extensions out of 3mm tubing??

I would not go less than the 5mm ,in fact I would pick the largest size I could get over the adjuster nut with shaving the corners down a bit. The weight means nothing and the strength goes up geometrically with thickness.

If you just take a screwdriver and twist open the clamp on it should easily open up for as much a 38-40mm. Worst case you redill the hole if a bolt wont go through.

A thick weld and a thin wall tubing is going to be very weak, a think aluminum weld is going to be weak. You can't win with thin stuff.

[Colin Green]

OK. 3mm wall no good .... How about the 37mm with 5mm wall? At least then I don't have to shag around filing the clip on (they aren't a split clamp type. They simply slide over the top of the fork). I promise I won't pull up on the bars.

A blank with a Half inch square hole centerd in it could be welded into the top of the tube to allow access to the preload adjustment and to use for undoing the cap.

[posplayr]

OK. 3mm wall no good .... How about the 37mm with 5mm wall? At least then I don't have to shag around filing the clip on (they aren't a split clamp type. They simply slide over the top of the fork). I promise I won't pull up on the bars.

A blank with a Half inch square hole centerd in it could be welded into the top of the tube to allow access to the preload adjustment and to use for undoing the cap.

If it is not a cinch clamp, you need to do the best you can to get that tight and then make the thickness a thick as possible.

Now I'm back to thinking about welding the clip-on to the triple top .

[Colin Green]

If it is not a cinch clamp, you need to do the best you can to get that tight and then make the thickness a thick as possible.

Now I'm back I'm thinking about welding the clip-on to the triple top .

Will have another think about that option. It is starting to appeal more. Only problem is that the triple has a split/cinch clamp at the ends which would preclude an all around weld. I'm guessing it would be limited to all down one side and only 1/2 to 3/4 of the other side. I guess that would still be stronger than the extension huh?.

Given that the instrument mounts and lock stops also have to be sorted out. I'm thinking it's a shame that the hole centres in the two triples aren't the same as I reckon if they were drilled out to 41mm on the 1150 triple, the thinnest section of wall around the hole would only be about .6mm thinner than that of the GSXR clamps. They are pretty much the same depth where they clamp onto the forks. That of course then leads to problems sorting out longer axle and axle and rotor spacers and neither front guard would be likely to fit.

[posplayr]

Will have another think about that option. It is starting to appeal more. Only problem is that the triple has a split/cinch clamp at the ends which would preclude an all around weld. I'm guessing it would be limited to all down one side and only 1/2 to 3/4 of the other side. I guess that would still be stronger than the extension huh?.

Given that the instrument mounts and lock stops also have to be sorted out. I'm thinking it's a shame that the hole centres in the two triples aren't the same as I reckon if they were drilled out to 41mm on the 1150 triple, the thinnest section of wall around the hole would only be about .6mm thinner than that of the GSXR clamps. They are pretty much the same depth where they clamp onto the forks. That of course then leads to problems sorting out longer axle and axle and rotor spacers and neither front guard would be likely to fit.

If the stock clip-on is just a slip fit then as long as you duplicate the fit there should be no worries.

You might need to chuck up the extension in a drill press or lathe to sand it down for a fine fit depending on how it all works out.

[Colin Green]

Thinking further about the loads imposed on the extension which is to be welded on to the fork cap got me wondering about whether the threaded connection itself would be up to transferring the loads from the bars to the forks. It wasn't designed for those sorts of loads (hadn't really considered it before). I don't think it is up to it.

Looks like directly welding the 1150 clip-ons to the GSXR top triple is going to be easier and safer.

I shall push ahead and cut off the front section of the 1150 triple with the instrument and ignition mounts ready for grafting onto the GSXR triple. I have an an encouraging reply to my Gixer inquiry for rotors so I might splash out on those other 1150 clip ons with controls that you showed me on ebay, as the extra height is definitely what I'm after and they will still have the original look. When I get them I can get them and some lock stops all welded together, paint them and sort the best of the controls (along with some new bearings) and that will be the first segment of Baz's mods sorted.

Many thanks Jim and Happy New year.

OMG! Just did my budget sums for the wheel (front & back) and front fork upgrade and I'm looking at close to.... Assisted suicide if the wife finds out

[posplayr]

Thinking further about the loads imposed on the extension which is to be welded on to the fork cap got me wondering about whether the threaded connection itself would be up to transferring the loads from the bars to the forks. It wasn't designed for those sorts of loads (hadn't really considered it before). I don't think it is up to it.

Looks like directly welding the 1150 clip-ons to the GSXR top triple is going to be easier and safer.

I shall push ahead and cut off the front section of the 1150 triple with the instrument and ignition mounts ready for grafting onto the GSXR triple. I have an an encouraging reply to my Gixer inquiry for rotors so I might splash out on those other 1150 clip ons with controls that you showed me on ebay, as the extra height is definitely what I'm after and they will still have the original look. When I get them I can get them and some lock stops all welded together, paint them and sort the best of the controls (along with some new bearings) and that will be the first segment of Baz's mods sorted.

Many thanks Jim and Happy New year.

OMG! Just did my budget sums for the wheel (front & back) and front fork upgrade and I'm looking at close to.... Assisted suicide if the wife finds out

The top adjuster is a fine thread with a very close fit and the top triple will be clamped down around the outside(will not wobble). It would take a whole lot of force to bend the top of the fork stanchion especially if you are bolting the clip-on to the top triple. As mentioned my reservation would be with getting the aluminum extension that is welded on strong enough.

The primary down side of the welding to the triple directly is lack or adjustability so get that correct first before welding it down.

Glad things are looking better for the New Year, Happy 1st.

[Colin Green]

My first ever mod

A numberof firsts for me today.

Pictures say it all

[Colin Green]

Ready to be dropped of to someone who can weld

[posplayr]

Colin,
Looks like you made some good progress. Here a few of points. You might have already thought of it but if not.......

1.) make sure that the clock and lock portion of the 1150 triple is at the right height. Mine was off and I had to persuade the key lock stop up to catch.

2.) make sure you measure the max steering angle (with gsxr forks and gas tank installed) as it is probably smaller than the 1150. I set mine to the +/-40 degrees of the 1100ED, but that was too much and the forks would touch the tank. Rob said he would make the stops a little short and then trim the stops to get to the right angle.

3.) As you probably figured, my welder first welded the two sides of the clock/lock portion to establish the spacing and then cut off that center portion. He completed the welding then.

4.) You should also pull out the rubber bushings for the clocks.

5.) On the steering stops, I had a couple of short logs welded all around except at the end where the stop mets the frame. To add additional strength the welder drilled from the bottom and welded from underneath as well.