I will say: get Ikons

[TheCafeKid]

I've been "schooling" myself on the art of suspension tuning. It's not a black art, but requires learning a lot of stuff that you and I don't already know, and forgetting just about everything we do. Many of us make the mistake of blaming one thing or another on too much or lack of damping when in reality we don't have our sag set correctly. Also alot of us (myself especially) make the mistake of having too much rebound damping..
The neatest thing I've been learning about is reading your tire wear patterns to aid in adjusting your suspension damping. But the most important thing is learning how to CORRECTLY set your sag. If that's not right, you're stabbing in the dark when you make adjustment.
The one thing I DO know is that the stock stuff is junk, undersprung, and downright dangerous. Before I would ever spend any money on more power, I'd spend it in suspension first.

[Baatfam]

I've been "schooling" myself on the art of suspension tuning. It's not a black art, but requires learning a lot of stuff that you and I don't already know, and forgetting just about everything we do. Many of us make the mistake of blaming one thing or another on too much or lack of damping when in reality we don't have our sag set correctly. Also alot of us (myself especially) make the mistake of having too much rebound damping..
The neatest thing I've been learning about is reading your tire wear patterns to aid in adjusting your suspension damping. But the most important thing is learning how to CORRECTLY set your sag. If that's not right, you're stabbing in the dark when you make adjustment.
The one thing I DO know is that the stock stuff is junk, undersprung, and downright dangerous. Before I would ever spend any money on more power, I'd spend it in suspension first.

Lee Park's book has an excellent chapter on suspension setup...
And if you ever get the chance to take his Total Control class, they show you the proper way to set your sag and how to adjust your suspension...(on a modern bike with full adjustment).

The one thing I love about my Triumph is the suspension. Unlike most of the Japanese bikes, Triumph did not skimp on the suspension components.

[Griffin]

I don't think the Japanese necessarily skimped on suspension components "back in the day", at least not on the fully adjustable suspensions you see on the GS1000E, the 1100E, the big G models, and the monoshock GSes. I do think they set them up for their test riders, who on average weighed about 150 lbs I would guess.

Larger American riders could get by with setting the stock suspensions to the higher settings when new, but after 25-30 years of wear and tear, the stock shocks and fork springs just don't get it done anymore.

[TheCafeKid]

Lee Park's book has an excellent chapter on suspension setup...
And if you ever get the chance to take his Total Control class, they show you the proper way to set your sag and how to adjust your suspension...(on a modern bike with full adjustment).

The one thing I love about my Triumph is the suspension. Unlike most of the Japanese bikes, Triumph did not skimp on the suspension components.

Yeah the book is on it's way. Plus I've been talking to an instructor about doing some of the exercises on my own. Can't afford the class at te moment but I am hoping to take it next season. The one thing having a more modern bike with modern cartridge forks and better shocks has shown me is alot of things I need to work on. Plus the frame is Soooo stiff the suspension being set up right is so much more important, and apparent when it's not. But besides trying to get better at that, I've been working through a lot of head issues. That crash last year was more damaging to my confidence than anything. Getting better but it has also shown me stuff I both need to sharpen and stuff I need to learn/relearn.
Rule number one of life in motorcycling: if you think you know all there is to know, you're lying to yourself.

[cowboyup3371]

TCK, Your post got me thinking since I need to buy new springs and shocks for my little ole thing. Can you post up any links to stuff you found? I read one article from the car bibles guy (he wrote up a post on motorcycle suspension) that was okay and I think I follow but I'm interested in more. Yet, the terms I'm using are just bringing up the vendor sites who will tell me why their product is better not what you should know about how they work.

Thanks.

[TheCafeKid]

TCK, Your post got me thinking since I need to buy new springs and shocks for my little ole thing. Can you post up any links to stuff you found? I read one article from the car bibles guy (he wrote up a post on motorcycle suspension) that was okay and I think I follow but I'm interested in more. Yet, the terms I'm using are just bringing up the vendor sites who will tell me why their product is better not what you should know about how they work.

Thanks.

Well first of all you obviously need to purchase shocks and springs that are set up for your weight and the weight of the bike. Most of these makes already know the weights of the bikes they're targeting, so you just need to figure in your weight, fully geared, into the equation. Don't consider whether you ride with a pillion or not, as that only sullies things up, and you'll end up with a spring to stiff for you to get the proper sag set.
Which brings me to sag settings. This must be dealt with first. No matter how many bells and whistles your new shocks may have, you can't begin to set them up properly without the sag being set properly. Sag, in simple terms, is the ideal amount of travel taken up by the bike with you on it, in gear, feet on the pegs in riding position. In my case, on the ZRX, I'm shooting for somewhere between 35-40mm of sag. To get that, you must first know what the total stroke length is,without the suspension (whether you're working on front or rear..the same applies) being weighted. You measure from a solid, non moving point to another solid non moving point. Write that down. Then you must load the suspension with weight (you and the bike) and measure between those points again. The difference between the two is what your current sag is. If it's less than you need, you need less preload. If it's more than you need you need more preload. But this must be measure first without any weight on the suspension.
From there, depending on how your suspension components are designed you can work in things like compression damping settings ( the most difficult to gauge) and rebound damping settings. The bike must be able to return to full stroke quickly, but in a controlled manner. I can go into a bit more detail, or better yet, show you what I've learned (and I've only scraped the surface, but I can tell you this: already there's not only a marked improvement in handling, but also in my ability to control and KNOW what's going to happen inside and entering corners) while you're out

Sorry Art for the long winded jacking..

[TheCafeKid]

I don't think the Japanese necessarily skimped on suspension components "back in the day", at least not on the fully adjustable suspensions you see on the GS1000E, the 1100E, the big G models, and the monoshock GSes. I do think they set them up for their test riders, who on average weighed about 150 lbs I would guess.

Larger American riders could get by with setting the stock suspensions to the higher settings when new, but after 25-30 years of wear and tear, the stock shocks and fork springs just don't get it done anymore.

This is still a problem. And actually, the good majority of the sport bikes were designed with those rider weights for a reason...guys trying to het the most out of those bikes are going to weigh around 150 or so lbs. Hehe.
But even still, most of the components are merely average. For example on the ZRX, it's a fully adjustable cartridge fork. But the valving for rebound damping is severely lacking. If you weigh more than 180, it needs to be replaced. Otherwise you're running it full in minus two clicks, and you have no headroom for higher speed work or super smooth highspeed courses. Not that I see any of that but it's the case.

I am indeed fully planning a Lee Parks class next year, and I'm hoping to throw in a couple track days as well. My hopes is that beig able to get schooling and the ability to "get nuts" on a track will aid in helping me keep it reigned in a bit on the street. There's a group that I've considered joining. Nothing required except that you keep your speed reeled in to 10 over the limit. If you can ride ten over, even in tight stuff, you're doing pretty good.
And you'll probably live a lot longer.

[Cdnpt1]

I should be entering the Ikon owners group in the next couple of months, I expect that will be the next major expense after the exhaust.

I'm gonna do the Ikon progressive fork springs as well as I'm not too spirited in the twisties and it's only a 450... pretty sure they should be fine for what I need and will definitely leave the stock saggy pieces of crap for dead!

Have you put these on/in yet?

[pete]

Have you put these on/in yet?

You need to catch up with my rebuild thread

I've only just made the purchase but they're still in boxes at the moment. No rush to fit them as yet as I'm still a little way off getting it on the road.