Wooden brakes - no feel at all

[Guest]

The brakes on my GS1100 have no feel at all, front or rear. They are firm and controllable, no pulsing, but they feel like blocks of wood.

The front master was beyond redemption when I got the bike, so I installed an old MC from an '85 GS550E I had laying around. I think this has a slightly smaller piston, so if anything the brakes should feel softer. The lines have been thoroughly flushed (twice, actually), but I have not pulled apart the calipers or the anti-dive assemblies. The caliper pistons move freely and there is no brake dragging.

The rear master cylinder was rebuilt, but not the caliper. Ditto the above, lines flushed, no dragging. Pedal is very firm, too firm. Again, a block of wood - no feel at all.

Bike has 13,000 miles. Don't know if the pads have been replaced, but they do have lots of life left in them, so they were probably replaced. All brake likes look original (yeah, not good), but that would likely make the brakes softer.

My inclination is that I'm just used to modern brakes on other bikes, but the brakes on my son's 1985 GS550e feel much better than the ones on the '82 1100.


Any thoughts?

[John Kat]

I bet the pads are 20 years old...
On top if you changed the pads around they are no longer bedded in...
Buying new pads will make a big difference after you bed them in carefully.
Clearly the brakes of that era can't be compared to today's material but with new pads and disks that are not too worn it should work pretty well.

[Nessism]

The braking system can be improved by:

- full system tear down and clean out
- fresh caliper grease on the sliding pins
- replace 30 year old rubber brake lines with Teflon/stainless type
- remove anti-dive devices and replace with block-off plates, or at least remove the line to the anti-dive
- fresh brake pads by quality supplier

Most GSR members are satisfied with upgrading their braking system using the above recommendation. The system can be further improved using more modern calipers/discs (find Salty_Monk's threads on the subject using the search feature). The 2nd generation 550 used twin piston calipers so that's likely why they feel better than the older single piston 1100 calipers. Take action as you deem appropriate.

[AJ]

The braking system can be improved by:

- full system tear down and clean out
- fresh caliper grease on the sliding pins
- replace 30 year old rubber brake lines with Teflon/stainless type
- remove anti-dive devices and replace with block-off plates, or at least remove the line to the anti-dive
- fresh brake pads by quality supplier

Most GSR members are satisfied with upgrading their braking system using the above recommendation. The system can be further improved using more modern calipers/discs (find Salty_Monk's threads on the subject using the search feature). The 2nd generation 550 used twin piston calipers so that's likely why they feel better than the older single piston 1100 calipers. Take action as you deem appropriate.

Yeah, I'm thinking that would be great, except

Caliper rebuild kits (front) $25 x 2 = $50
Brake pads (front) $35 x 2 = $70
Master cylinder rebuild $30
Brake lines $85
(assuming ditching the antidive)
-------------------------------------------------
Total $235

And that only does the front brakes!

I've seen fairly new calipers, lines, and masters on ebay for $60 - $100 for bikes like SV650. Starting to think that's the best route. Or even do the fork swap!

[Nessism]

I doubt the SV calipers will fit without spacing the discs outboard of the wheel. Hope you have access to a machine shop and know your way around the equipment.

A complete front end swap may be a better idea, although the forks are shorter so the front end will drop, plus there will be lots of other parts to adapt which will add significantly to the cost.

[Steve]

Yeah, I'm thinking that would be great, except

Caliper rebuild kits (front) $25 x 2 = $50
Brake pads (front) $35 x 2 = $70
Master cylinder rebuild $30
Brake lines $85
(assuming ditching the antidive)
-------------------------------------------------
Total $235

And that only does the front brakes!

How much do you think the Emergency Room bill will be when you can't stop in time?

'Nuff said.

.

[Vmass]

How much do you think the Emergency Room bill will be when you can't stop in time?

'Nuff said.

.

That was my first thought, as well!!

[AJ]

The brakes stop fine. Could probably do a stoppie. They just feel like garbage and was wondering if anyone else has this complaint.

I haven't looked at the brake calipers too much, but am thinking anything with a single-sided caliper might be able to work. For example, the SV650. The 650 is lighter, much lighter, but I'll bet those brakes are tons better than what came on the 1100e.

[Big T]

You could start by replacing the brake pads, then the brakes lines and clean out the calipers

This is most likely the problem

I did the Twinpot upgrade. Great feel and I can lock the front tire if needed. But it isn't cheap

Changing to a newer caliper has lots of hidden costs. Rebuilds are always a possibility.

I'm upgrading my 79 with a 92 Katana front end. The brake seals alone run $240

[steve murdoch]

Glazed pads?
You might be able to salvage them with some sandpaper.
Too much heat from riding the brakes or a slightly stuck brake piston forcing the pads onto the rotors, sometimes a warped rotor can cause the heat build-up.

[koolaid_kid]

Glazed pads?
You might be able to salvage them with some sandpaper.
Too much heat from riding the brakes or a slightly stuck brake piston forcing the pads onto the rotors, sometimes a warped rotor can cause the heat build-up.

This is probably your only recourse besides rebuilding/replacing parts.
Get a pane of glass or some other very flat surface. Start with fairly coarse sandpaper (I use the black wet-r-dry type), say 80 grit. Sand it down until fresh pad appears on the entire pad. Then use a finer grit (220 should do) to buff it down to a smooth surface. Then take your 220 and also knock the glaze off your rotors. Do not go in a circular fashion, go in and out, across the surface rather than around. Do this until shiny metal is showing. That is about the best you can do without spending money.
Best of luck.
p.s. New pads would be your best investment, IMHO.

[AJ]

Thanks, guys. I'll pull the pads in front and see if they are glazed. Entirely possible. Will report back.

[cowboyup3371]

I'm just surprised you are that worried about price when it comes to something your life depends on. I can see finding cheaper alternatives to tires or plugs but brakes?

Strange

[tkent02]

I'm just surprised you are that worried about price when it comes to something your life depends on. I can see finding cheaper alternatives to tires or plugs but brakes?

Strange

I'd rather have weak brakes than weak tires any day.

[koolaid_kid]

I'd rather have weak brakes than weak tires any day.

I'd rather you had weak brakes than me.
Just joshing, I won't go out without both being good.