J
jwhelan65
Guest
Getting ready to mout a 3.5" 1150 in an alluminum 1100 swingarm, I am certain its been done on here. The 1100 is wider by approximately 1.25" best I can tell, does anyone have the spacing recipe?
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Guest
Guest
hey, you might talk to TCK, he did this to my es, as i recall, there is a little controversy surrounding the exact recipe...
J
jwhelan65
Guest
Ah yes good recall , I will PM him
You need to add 2mm between the bearing & the sprocket drive spacer on the left side (to push the wheel slightly to the right) & a 3mm spacer on the right hand side (can't remember if it's inboard or outboard of the brake hanger but that will be obvious to you - I believe it is outboard).
I have it mapped out exactly in CAD somewhere. There are fraction of a mm differences from what I am showing here but that will basically do it.
There is a big long thread where John (in France) & I debate this issue.
TCK just put a 5mm spacer on the right hand side, 2mm on one side of the hanger & 3mm on the other if I remember rightly. Seems like a few people have done that but it doesn't centre the wheel by my calculation...
I have it mapped out exactly in CAD somewhere. There are fraction of a mm differences from what I am showing here but that will basically do it.
There is a big long thread where John (in France) & I debate this issue.
TCK just put a 5mm spacer on the right hand side, 2mm on one side of the hanger & 3mm on the other if I remember rightly. Seems like a few people have done that but it doesn't centre the wheel by my calculation...
Wheel comparison
CAD work. I haven't fitted mine yet so if you fit yours first I will be interested to see how the "string method" lines up your front & rear tyres after fitting this way.....
The 111mm is the 1150 bearing spacer, the 116mm is the 1000/1100 spacer. Bearings are the same so you can see you have to make up 5mm somewhere... The tolerance in the rest of my measurements might be why the CAD suggests it needs 6mm. I planned to fine tune once fitted if necessary but start at 2mm left & 3mm right.
Full size here: http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/salty_monk/Suzuki/
The 111mm is the 1150 bearing spacer, the 116mm is the 1000/1100 spacer. Bearings are the same so you can see you have to make up 5mm somewhere... The tolerance in the rest of my measurements might be why the CAD suggests it needs 6mm. I planned to fine tune once fitted if necessary but start at 2mm left & 3mm right.
Full size here: http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/salty_monk/Suzuki/
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Yes, Salty and myself have had a long debate on this issue
I replaced the original GS 1000 type wheel on both a GS 1000 and an 1100 Kat.
On one of them I used a 3" 1150 wheel and on the other a 3.5" 1150 wheel.
Both required to move the wheel to the left by 5 mm ( with thinner spacers than those used by the original wheel).
I also had to move the engine sprocket out to keep the chain aligned.
I used a handy laser device to check that.
I still don't understand why Salty and myself find different answers to this apparently simple matter
Please report on your findings to help me out!
At least the end result doesn't look too bad.
I replaced the original GS 1000 type wheel on both a GS 1000 and an 1100 Kat.
On one of them I used a 3" 1150 wheel and on the other a 3.5" 1150 wheel.
Both required to move the wheel to the left by 5 mm ( with thinner spacers than those used by the original wheel).
I also had to move the engine sprocket out to keep the chain aligned.
I used a handy laser device to check that.
I still don't understand why Salty and myself find different answers to this apparently simple matter
Please report on your findings to help me out!
At least the end result doesn't look too bad.
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J
jwhelan65
Guest
Here is where I am at now so I will play with Dans set up and post a few more pics.. just a mock with 1150 parts
Great! Looks like you have the ideal setup & are at the ideal stage to play guinea pig on this! 
Joe,
The alignment process goes like this.
1.) Get the rear wheel centered in the frame
for a GS this is simple;the GS swingarms are centered in the frame so center the wheel in teh swingarm; the distance between the inside of the swing arm fork to a reference point on the wheel (like the lip of the wheel) should be the same on both sides. Another simple way is to put a straight edge across the tire and measure the distance to the inside of the swing arm. To do this measurement make sure that the rear axle is parallel with the swingarm bolt (measure distance betwen the ends of the bolts and make sure they are the same on both sides; the swingarm markings could be used as well).
2.) rear wheel alignment with the FRONT wheel. The string method is about as good as you can do even though other methods exist.
Now that the rear wheel is centered and aligned now get the chain straight...
3.) Align the sprocket and chain. You can usually just offset the countersproket, but to split the difference between frame and tire sometimes it helps to mill the hub as well. A thinner (520) chain always helps. A siple check is to put a straight edge below the chain against the rear tire and see if it is parallel to the chain. If not then adjust as required. You dont want to be off by more than a chain plate thickness in alighnment.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=147705
The alignment process goes like this.
1.) Get the rear wheel centered in the frame
for a GS this is simple;the GS swingarms are centered in the frame so center the wheel in teh swingarm; the distance between the inside of the swing arm fork to a reference point on the wheel (like the lip of the wheel) should be the same on both sides. Another simple way is to put a straight edge across the tire and measure the distance to the inside of the swing arm. To do this measurement make sure that the rear axle is parallel with the swingarm bolt (measure distance betwen the ends of the bolts and make sure they are the same on both sides; the swingarm markings could be used as well).
2.) rear wheel alignment with the FRONT wheel. The string method is about as good as you can do even though other methods exist.
Now that the rear wheel is centered and aligned now get the chain straight...
3.) Align the sprocket and chain. You can usually just offset the countersproket, but to split the difference between frame and tire sometimes it helps to mill the hub as well. A thinner (520) chain always helps. A siple check is to put a straight edge below the chain against the rear tire and see if it is parallel to the chain. If not then adjust as required. You dont want to be off by more than a chain plate thickness in alighnment.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=147705
Here is where I am at now so I will play with Dans set up and post a few more pics.. just a mock with 1150 parts
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J
jwhelan65
Guest
Thanks Jim
By the way... I already ran the black 2.5" wheel (in the pics above) on my skunk for 2000 miles with stock 78 GS1000 Spacer set & sprocket drive fitted. No issues before I pulled it off so I'm very confident in my measurements for my bike.
Still not sure why John comes up with something different, I think we'd have to get both bikes in the same garage to really figure it out!
Still not sure why John comes up with something different, I think we'd have to get both bikes in the same garage to really figure it out!
Yes, Salty and myself have had a long debate on this issue
I replaced the original GS 1000 type wheel on both a GS 1000 and an 1100 Kat.
On one of them I used a 3" 1150 wheel and on the other a 3.5" 1150 wheel.
Both required to move the wheel to the left by 5 mm ( with thinner spacers than those used by the original wheel).
I also had to move the engine sprocket out to keep the chain aligned.
I used a handy laser device to check that.
I still don't understand why Salty and myself find different answers to this apparently simple matter
Please report on your findings to help me out!
At least the end result doesn't look too bad.
JohnKat,
Have you been able to measure the side to side distances (wheel to fork) to confirm the wheel is centered in the forks? It doesn't have to be perfect but +/- 2 mm would be nice or +/- 4mm would also probably be acceptable.
Any lateral offset can be adjusted out by wheel alignment between front and rear. If you think about it, (setting real wheel spacing) you are only getting the bikes C.G. over the wheels; that is not critical to within +/- 1 mm.
I would be more worried about the front to rear wheel alignment because that will produce a built in turn if you don't have that correct. (+/-2mm or
better desired)
A simple measurement to confirm the wheel is centered would be reassuring. If you cut a couple of peices of hard wood , then use C clamps to clamp the two boards (one to each side) to the lip of the wheel (not the tires) you then have a good reference point to us a T square to measure the distances to the swing arm forks (one on the left and one on the right).
Dan
As I describe above, you could probably be pretty far off in offset (e.g. over 4mm )and not really notice it. Shifting your weight a little as you ride would adjust for any residual offset you might have.
Jim
Jim,
I found out about this offset issue on my 1100 Katana that was fitted with an 1150 3.5" wheel.
As I took my wife for a ride, I noticed a chirping sound when riding over bumps...
Back home, I noticed that my 130 wide tire was hitting the mudgard just behind the shock absorber!
When I investigated further, I noticed that my wheel was offset to the right in the swingarm.
After many measurements and turning the wheel around left to right in the swingarm ( to correct for any swingarm assymetry) I concluded that the wheel had to move approximately 5 mm to the left.
Here are some pictures of an 1150 3" wheel on my GS 1000 S where you can clearly see the left spacer that has been shaved.
I would really like to get to the bottom of this issue, not to prove that I'm right but to understand how Salty and myself can come to opposite conclusions
I found out about this offset issue on my 1100 Katana that was fitted with an 1150 3.5" wheel.
As I took my wife for a ride, I noticed a chirping sound when riding over bumps...
Back home, I noticed that my 130 wide tire was hitting the mudgard just behind the shock absorber!
When I investigated further, I noticed that my wheel was offset to the right in the swingarm.
After many measurements and turning the wheel around left to right in the swingarm ( to correct for any swingarm assymetry) I concluded that the wheel had to move approximately 5 mm to the left.
Here are some pictures of an 1150 3" wheel on my GS 1000 S where you can clearly see the left spacer that has been shaved.
I would really like to get to the bottom of this issue, not to prove that I'm right but to understand how Salty and myself can come to opposite conclusions
You want to measure between the wheel(preferably)/tire and the fork where the spacer rests. The swing arm may not be perfectly symmetrical (left to right) but most likely the wheel is centered in the swing arm and the swing arm is centered in the frame. The GS 1100E aluminum swingarms are this way even if they are not symmetric.
If the swing arm is not symetrical then the way you are measuring (basically rubbing clearance) won't mean much. Also make sure that the wheel is square in teh swing arm. Either go by the marks or measure between the axle and swing arm bolts to make sure you are close.
see the attached picture
In contrast the bandit swing arm is about 3/16" offset in the frame (I measured this outside the frame using a T square and blocks clamped to the swing arm forks). The wheel spacers have to take this into consideration. For my bandit swing arm in order to get better clearance for my rear brake rod between swing arm and frame, I offset the swing arm in the frame by 4mm (away from the right side rear brake)and compensated at the wheel spacers to keep the wheel centered.
It is going to be hard to measure this much better than what I;m describing. I have gone over this alot with Katman and tried to do measurements in the frame and it all came back that measuring the symmetry of the swing arm or it's offset and measuring the wheel with respect to the forks and taking into account the offset is close enough for what we are doing. I figure you can get to +/- 2mm and that is close enough for centering the rear wheel. You can align out any real wheel offset when you do the string calibration to the front wheel.
If the swing arm is not symetrical then the way you are measuring (basically rubbing clearance) won't mean much. Also make sure that the wheel is square in teh swing arm. Either go by the marks or measure between the axle and swing arm bolts to make sure you are close.
see the attached picture
In contrast the bandit swing arm is about 3/16" offset in the frame (I measured this outside the frame using a T square and blocks clamped to the swing arm forks). The wheel spacers have to take this into consideration. For my bandit swing arm in order to get better clearance for my rear brake rod between swing arm and frame, I offset the swing arm in the frame by 4mm (away from the right side rear brake)and compensated at the wheel spacers to keep the wheel centered.
It is going to be hard to measure this much better than what I;m describing. I have gone over this alot with Katman and tried to do measurements in the frame and it all came back that measuring the symmetry of the swing arm or it's offset and measuring the wheel with respect to the forks and taking into account the offset is close enough for what we are doing. I figure you can get to +/- 2mm and that is close enough for centering the rear wheel. You can align out any real wheel offset when you do the string calibration to the front wheel.
Jim,
I found out about this offset issue on my 1100 Katana that was fitted with an 1150 3.5" wheel.
As I took my wife for a ride, I noticed a chirping sound when riding over bumps...
Back home, I noticed that my 130 wide tire was hitting the mudgard just behind the shock absorber!
When I investigated further, I noticed that my wheel was offset to the right in the swingarm.
After many measurements and turning the wheel around left to right in the swingarm ( to correct for any swingarm assymetry) I concluded that the wheel had to move approximately 5 mm to the left.
Here are some pictures of an 1150 3" wheel on my GS 1000 S where you can clearly see the left spacer that has been shaved.
I would really like to get to the bottom of this issue, not to prove that I'm right but to understand how Salty and myself can come to opposite conclusions
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here is a picture of how I determined the bandit swing arm offset.
I first measured the midpoint between the swingarm bolt shaft.
Then I measured the offset between that midpoint and the left and the right forks.
The difference was the offset.
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I will look into this further tomorrow.
As I was suspecting the swingarm to be assymetrical, I checked by superimposing two GS 1000 swingarms with one upside down.
They are symmetrical as far as I could judge.
With respect to the clearance of the wheel ( or tire) to the swingarm, I reversed the wheel in the swingarm ( i.e. back to front ) to ensure the same baseline.
I did my homework as you can see but I'll use your method tomorrow to triple check.
Thanks for the inputs!
As I was suspecting the swingarm to be assymetrical, I checked by superimposing two GS 1000 swingarms with one upside down.
They are symmetrical as far as I could judge.
With respect to the clearance of the wheel ( or tire) to the swingarm, I reversed the wheel in the swingarm ( i.e. back to front ) to ensure the same baseline.
I did my homework as you can see but I'll use your method tomorrow to triple check.
Thanks for the inputs!
If the swingarm is symmetrical then the tire clearance will be indicative of centering of the wheel. I'm not sure what the wheel reversal is giving you. With a symmetrical swing arm the wheel should have the same spacing to the swing arm.
I did a whole lot of calculations as well and spent hours on the phone with katman and ultimately the only thing that gave me any confidence is what I'm outlining as it was very straight forward direct measurements
I did a whole lot of calculations as well and spent hours on the phone with katman and ultimately the only thing that gave me any confidence is what I'm outlining as it was very straight forward direct measurements
J
jwhelan65
Guest
Little confused with John Kats 1000 set up in comparison to the alluminm 1100 swingarm..are they the same? Looking at this today and some preliminary measurements it looks like Dan's set up is the way to go. I will try and get some pics up..