1150 3.5" wheel in an 1100 swingarm

[salty_monk]

If anyone wants the source CAD files you are welcome to them

Done in AutoCAD.

Dealing with a screenshot in the posts above, that's the only way to post them so resolution is not great. I admit they aren't that easy to understand as they were "thinking" drawings for me rather than explanatory drawings for someone else to use... once I got my answer I left it there rather than "pretty" them up.

By the way... anything white is 1150 - anything red is 1000. (stupid as my 1150 wheel is red, I should have done it the other way!! )

Anything not critical to the measurements I was taking is not drawn at full size (i.e. the bearing dia will not be correct as that doesn't effect us in the horizontal plane so I just put an approximation in the drawing).

[salty_monk]

This picture shows that the RIM is offset LEFT of the bearing face (yes the wheel is resting on the wheel casting not the bearing face but they are close enough for demonstrative purposes).

Note how if the RIM was offset the same then the 2.5" RIM would be the same distance from the 1150 RIM top & bottom. It is not. The gap is bigger at the Bottom which is the Drive side. Now you have to think about it on the bike. A bigger gap here shows that the 1150 RIM is sitting further to the left than the 1000 RIM relative to the bearing face. (imagine this picture was taken from above with a swingarm around it, which RIM is closer to the swingarm on the left Side relative to the bearing - discounting for the additional 1" in Rim width of course! )



You Can also see that in this CAD image. The white one is the 1150. In this CAD the bearings are in line. You can clearly see that the 1150 RIM is offset to the LEFT (Drive side) compared to the 1000 RIM. You need to basically ignore the HUB as that is lined up on the left hand side which takes it out of the equation & concentrate on the RIM.
This shows that if we do what TCK did & put 5mm of spacer on the brake side the RIM will be offset left relative to the wheel it is replacing.



Full size here: http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...y_monk/Suzuki/

[salty_monk]

So I made it a bit easier to understand following my post above.

This is the RIM GAP I am talking about:



This shows the CAD with labels:



This shows the CAD with 2 blue lines to indicate a swingarm if all we did was pack out the right side by 5mm (as per TCK) so that the HUBS were the same width with BEARINGS FACES ALIGNED on the Left (sprocket side) only.
The other spacers are irrelevant as they will be the SAME FOR BOTH WHEELS.

Note that the 1150 RIM is OFFSET TO THE LEFT relative to the 1000 RIM.



You can easily see from this that the 1000 RIM is centred between the 2 blue lines. The 1150 RIM is not centred between the 2 blue lines & needs shifting to the RIGHT!

The way to do this is to put a spacer between the original Sprocket driver spacer & the Left Bearing face. Any remaining should be taken up on the right hand side (1 side of the brake caliper mount or the other).

[jwhelan65]

So back to my original post, the best set up would be the 2mm left and 3mm right per you first post? This is way more info than I anticipated....

[salty_monk]

Yes, I plan to start there (give or take what thickness of hardened washers I can find at the store).

As you see above my CAD actually shows 2.75 required to the left but my measurements will not be 100% accurate.

I think key is to in total have approx 5mm of added spacer and to put approx 50% on each side, I really don't think 0.5mm either way will make a difference anyone can feel!

The extra spacer on the left defo goes between the sprocket hub spacer and the bearing. The one on the right you'll have to judge when you mount it up to centralise the caliper on the rotor. (will be one side of the caliper mount or the other...)

[John Kat]

Salty,
We are definitely not comparing the same wheels...
If I lay my two wheels on the LH side like you do, the 2.5" wheel has it's rim at 20 mm from the reference surface and as the rim width is 88 mm the middle of the rim is at 64 mm (20+88/2)
The rim of the 3.5" wheel lays at 12.5 mm from the surface and it's width is 111 mm.
The center of the rim is thus at 12.5+111/2=68 mm.
So here clearly the 1150's wheel is offset further to the RIGHT than the 1000 wheel.
That's why I narrowed the spacers by 4 mm on the LH side ( sprocket side) to keep the wheel centered.
Apparently your data relates to a 3" 1150 wheel and not a 3.5" wheel like I do
Is it the end of the story?
I'm not sure as I have also mounted a 3" wheel with the same offset and it's centered in the swingarm....

PS: Given that we don't have the same 1150 wheels? I doubled checked with my source for the spacers and got corrected data for the sprocket carrier spacer at 47.5 mm versus 42.5 mm...
I can't blame the guy, he did it in a hurry.
The result is that the offset is of course no longer the same you measured but that's now irrelevant as we are comparing data on two different wheels!
PS2: I looked again through the PN of the different spacers used on the various GS 1150's to determine if there was any change to account for the difference between the 3" and 3.5" wheel but found nothing. It's for this reason that I had assumed both wheels would have the same offset.
PS3: I still believe there is a large discrepancy between our measurements of the offset from the edge of the left wheel bearing to the rim center.
On the 2.5" wheel you get 54 mm while I have 49.5?

[GregT]

You won't need hardened washers - there's no rotation of the axle spacers once it's tightened down.

After all this, how far out is the chain line ?

[John Kat]

You won't need hardened washers - there's no rotation of the axle spacers once it's tightened down.

After all this, how far out is the chain line ?

On the 3.5" wheel the chain line would be out by 3 to 4mm ( only if you shave the left spacers by the same amount!)
As the 1150 engine sprocket is offset by 3mm compared to the 1100, I would settle for 3 mm.
I checked with my laser alignment tool and it's perfect.
For the 3" wheel, the jury is not out yet...

[jwhelan65]

Yes, I plan to start there (give or take what thickness of hardened washers I can find at the store).

As you see above my CAD actually shows 2.75 required to the left but my measurements will not be 100% accurate.

I think key is to in total have approx 5mm of added spacer and to put approx 50% on each side, I really don't think 0.5mm either way will make a difference anyone can feel!

The extra spacer on the left defo goes between the sprocket hub spacer and the bearing. The one on the right you'll have to judge when you mount it up to centralise the caliper on the rotor. (will be one side of the caliper mount or the other...)

Cool I am going with this, I will report back...Thanks Dan!

[John Kat]

I hope you have the 3" wheel and not the 3.5" as in the title of this thread

[salty_monk]

Sorry John... Not that simple

[John Kat]

Dan,
Well, I've drawn the two rims to scale as in your picture where they are side by side and it looks totally different
Lying on the LH side the 2.5" rim has it's edge at 20 mm from the reference surface for a rim width of 84 mm (edge to edge)
The 3.5" rim on it's LH side has the rim edge at 12.5 mm from the reference surface for a rim width of 111 mm.
Be so kind to draw it for yourself and you'll see that the 3.5 " rim is clearly offset to the right ( top here)
It should take you no more than 5 minutes to compare my data to yours to determine which one of our wheels is different ( or both?)

[salty_monk]

John,

I don't see an image. Maybe just cause I'm on my phone.
Certainly willing to take some additional measurements.
I can Probably pull them from existing CAD and then double check them physically.

Dan

[John Kat]

John,

I don't see an image. Maybe just cause I'm on my phone.
Certainly willing to take some additional measurements.
I can Probably pull them from existing CAD and then double check them physically.

Dan

Sorry Dan, there is no image as I can't scan my drawing but I took some very basic measurements that you eitheir have allready or that you can check very easily.
I'm really puzzled by this whole thing as I believe you know what you are doing and I can't find a straightforward answer on my side

[salty_monk]

we'll get there John....