Shinko 230 Torture Test

[Chuck78]

I should also note that, although my friends confirmed that the 17" Sport bike rubber by Shinko is not very good, I am ecstatic about my Shinko 520 rear dirt bike tire... the 520 front felt sketchy on hard pack clay, but the Shinko F546 turned out to be an AWESOME front as well...
The 520 rear looks SERIOUS, & is a total mud hog, it does GREAT in the mud and loamy soil... just okay on hard pack at 10-12 psi (around the recommended max for woods riding in general), decent at 9 psi (lowest with tubes), but does really well down at 5-6psi running a NeuTech TuBliss system...
I may try a Sedona 907 on the rear of the next bike for comparison on hardpack, but the Shinko 546 gers my vote on the front again hands down...

So Shinko will be the dominating tire brand amongst my bukes, with a little Bridgestone here and there, & trying out a Sedona...


Shinko makes some pretty great tires, but you have to do your research first.

For a lighter rider on a light/middleweight bike, it seems as if the 230 and 712 both are a great great buy for the DIY'er or someone whose buddy has a tire changer...

[bwringer]

Brian, how many miles of hard use do you get out of a rear AM26?
5,500 I'm guessing???
I'm curious to see if the 712 lasts you 4,000...

The reviews I remember hearing of the 712 from fairly aggressive riders said that when you lean over to near the very edge of the tread, the grip gets a little vague and does not give you good feedback, whereas the 230 Tour Master grips very excellent all the way to the edge and has the more sporty feel/grip by far.

...

On the flip side, the Shinko offerings in a 17-inch sportbike radials are very questionable.

- I can count on 6,000 miles from a rear Avon AM26, and 12,000 from the front. The only front tire I've ever been comfortable running 2:1.

- I haven't noticed any edge issues on the 712. I also hang off a good bit when riding hard so I always have a goodly traction margin to work with, so maybe I just haven't gotten into that ragged edge (nor do I want to). Before I learned the correct, complete technique (Total Control Riding classes from Lee Parks -- HIGHLY recommended), I dragged parts more often, went slower, and didn't have nearly as much margin for correction.

- My 712s won't see 3,000 miles. To be fair, if I ran them down way past the TWIs like I did the 230s (I was 500 miles from home when I noticed they were roached; they had 3,000 miles at that point, and were smooth at 3,500 miles), then yeah, they would probably achieve approximately the same mileage.



- Not that Shinko's other tires have any relevance whatsoever to this discussion of GS tires, but...

I've also not heard good things about Shinko's sportybike tires. And the price difference in those sizes isn't nearly as compelling.

I've been impressed by the 705 on the KLR650 (blocky chevron dual-sport tread). Great on the street, passable off pavement. They're less impressive, but serviceable on the V-Strom -- the current 705 has a very strange feel on the Strom, and although I've used three sets on my V-Strom thanks to their crazy low pricing, I've never been all that happy with them. I'll just pay a few extra bucks for better tires.

I tend to keep knobbier rubber on the KLR650 nowadays, and the Shinko 805 (square block knobby) is OK on pavement, but not nearly as good off-pavement as other options, like the Metzeler Karoo 3. Plus, there's not much of a price difference, so I won't be installing a new set when these poop out.

In sum, Shinko is a mixed bag. It depends on your bike and the competition. They're good, safe tires made in a first-world country (South Korea) and they have a certain niche in the market.

In this case, on a GS, both of Shinko's offerings are very, very good, and the pricing is compelling, but they are short-lived. As noted in the original review, if you ride your GS a lot, or have to pay to have tires mounted, the cost/mile equation may lean toward a more expensive but longer-lived tire like the Avon AM26 (or others).

I'm on my second set of 712s. I replaced the first set due to age but I really like them

[Chuck78]

On this Rickman chassis project that I am slowly collecting parts for, I'm VERY excited to try out a set of Bridgestone Battlax BT016 Hypersport 18" radial tires... they are a cornering-oriented high performance street + track day tire that comes in sizes to fit mid 1980's & late 1980's sport bikes. The 1st 2 years slabside GSXR's and other similar bikes are the intended target for half of their size range - which will fit the 2.50x18 front rim and 4.25x18 rear rim that I have for the Rickman CR (Suzuki GS1000E/1100GK-1135cc powered) project. That will be a 110/80-18 & a 150/70-18 (if I had a 4.50x18 rear I could've run a 160/60-18 BT016).
My other options are BT45V Battlax bias ply tires (proven street and track say performer), & for actual track use, the AM22/AM23 Avon Super Venom race-only tires will do really well from what I've been told.Same sizes I'd be running in the BT016...


The BT45V Battlax rear I am very pleased to be running on the GS750 street bike, as it is a dual compound rear, but still a very grippy compound, but even more grippy on the softer side tread areas for maximum cornering. I haven't gotten past an estimated 3200 miles or so on that (guessing), but the rear isn't squared off at all yet and is doing very well.
I went with a Shinko 230 up front still because I know they do great in the rain, and one GSR buddy of mine said he had a scare on the wet with a BT45 front... all other feedback I've heard says they do fine in the wet though.

[Chuck78]

In the wholesale catalogs, Shinko markets the 712 as a sport tire, and the 230 is obviously called the Tour Master.

The speed ratings would indicate that the 230 is the more performance-oriented tire, and I can vouch that it works very well everywhere aside from being a little greasy on the pavement on sunny 100+ degree days. The rubber is definitely quite soft then! Even at that though, they are very predictable. Will always at this point in my life be running the soft sticky sporty short-lived tires, I like to really lean the bike in turns while pushing the suggested speed thru the curve warning signs, and also the stickier tires make your brakes more effective, they grip the pavement more/longer/better before they will lock up after increasing braking force is applied. One of the bigger limitations on your brakes can often be just the tires themselves, not even the brakes!

I may be slightly biased because I have my own tire changer and balancer here, and I do ride "a little" more aggressively than most of my friends, but you get the most in-depth reviews from that type of perspective anyhow!

For the average rider, the Avon Road Rider will probably be the bestimate overall choice, all things considered. Unless price is a big factor & the bike does not get that many miles. If you can't wear out a set of tires in less than 3 seasons, then you should not be getting high mileage tires anyway. The rubber has a very definite shelf life that needs to be observed. Once they pass the 3 or 5 year mark, they likely may get a little questionable in terms of your safety when leaning the bike over or under hard braking. Depends on the rubber compound, but you can't rely on it past a certain age. We only have 2 wheels in contact with the ground, not 4!

Of course, this (Avon overall recomnendation for average riders) is all subject to change upon further review of the Shinko 712 if it proves to be a very good competitor to the Avon AM26...





Brian, how many miles of hard use do you get out of a rear AM26?
5,500 I'm guessing???
I'm curious to see if the 712 lasts you 4,000...

The reviews I remember hearing of the 712 from fairly aggressive riders said that when you lean over to near the very edge of the tread, the grip gets a little vague and does not give you good feedback, whereas the 230 Tour Master grips very excellent all the way to the edge and has the more sporty feel/grip by far.


On the flip side, the Shinko offerings in a 17-inch sportbike radials are very questionable. A few of my friends have ran those, and said they were terrible tires. I can't remember which one exactly, but I've heard from numerous sources including 2 or more friends of mine that they are not very good vs the competition (Continental Road Attack 2's, Michelin Pilot Road's, etc)

However, my friend on a newer Ninja was following my friend on a ZRX 1200 with very highly regarded Michelin Pilot Road radials, who was following me leading the pace. I was definitely riding my usual style, and my ninja buddy said the guy on a ZRX was sliding all over the road trying to match my pace... I'm sure that was a slight exaggeration, but this was coming from a very good rider observing the ZRX Rider with the well-regarded Michelin 17" Sport Touring radials, so even a slight bit of slippage from the back end on that thing would be enough to make the rider following him pucker up real good! The thing that gets me with all of those tires is that they are all 20,000 mile high silicon content tires and they try to get the most grip out of the long tread life, but riding with him even with new tires on his bike, and hearing this feedback, I was not impressed by the high mileage ultra-modern compounds when I was flowing through the turns at a fairly aggressive pace on a much more dated frame and suspension, but having zero issues on then.a 140/70-18 Shinko SR741 & 110/90-18 230 Tourmaster, vs a bike running a 180/60(?)-17 modern sport touring radial...
I will stick to what I know works very well on our vintage 18-inch wheel diameters, even though it has to be changed out at least once a season!

[bwringer]

To be honest, I really can't say there's a hell of a lot of difference between the 230 and the 712 in my experience. Then again, a few years on Avons passed between my 230 torture test and spooning on the 712s last year. The 230 is V rated and the 712 is H rated, but I can't point to any real world difference that affects a GS.

I think the 230 is about $5 a set more expensive (less cheap?) than the 712.

And, uh, the 230 looks sorta weird. The 712 is a lot more conventional-looking. Not that any of us really care.

That's all I got... maybe I need to toss a set of 230s on this spring in The Name of SCIENCE! A back-to-back comparison might be somewhat useful to someone somewhere someday. It's an excuse to ride more, anyway.

[mmattockx]

Regarding squared off treads, that's pretty normal for guys that don't ride in the twisties all the time. I've never noticed any handling issues with tires worn this way though. If you really get into a corner you will be past the square edge anyway.

I have had bikes get nervous and imprecise around center with a flat spotted rear, along with a noticeable 'step' off the flat onto the rounded shoulder of the tire when tipping into corners. Once they are leaned over they are fine as you are onto the regular profile at that point.


Mark

[salty_monk]

I've noticed in the transition when they are really worn, more so on my KLR as I guess they are running from a smooth square worn out bit to a chunk block (I use 50/50 tyres).

You get a no turn, no turn, no turn, fall over sort of feeling if that makes sense as it rides up on the edge & then goes past it.

[Nessism]

I was under the impression it was the opposite, that the 230's were more of a performance tire while the 712's were more of a mileage tire. The 230's are all V speed rated while the 712's are all H rated. I think the 712 is the older design as well, but I'm not certain of that.

I'm running the 230's on my 1100E and am enjoying them. My mileage is similar to yours, the rear has just under 6100km on it now (~3750mi) and is pretty flat in the middle. No funky handling yet from the flat spot, but there will be eventually. There is still tread left and it could go for a while yet but I am replacing it this spring to keep the handling nice and smooth. At the price they go for it isn't worth it to try and squeeze out another 1000km just to save the price of a fancy coffee.


Mark

I was under the same belief: 230 > 712 from the performance standpoint. Doubt it really makes much difference though. I wouldn't use either of those tires if truly pushing up to the 130 mph H speed rating level.

Regarding squared off treads, that's pretty normal for guys that don't ride in the twisties all the time. I've never noticed any handling issues with tires worn this way though. If you really get into a corner you will be past the square edge anyway.

[mmattockx]

How do you fellas feel about the 712 versus the 230? The 712 I believe is marketed as more of a sport tire

I was under the impression it was the opposite, that the 230's were more of a performance tire while the 712's were more of a mileage tire. The 230's are all V speed rated while the 712's are all H rated. I think the 712 is the older design as well, but I'm not certain of that.

I'm running the 230's on my 1100E and am enjoying them. My mileage is similar to yours, the rear has just under 6100km on it now (~3750mi) and is pretty flat in the middle. No funky handling yet from the flat spot, but there will be eventually. There is still tread left and it could go for a while yet but I am replacing it this spring to keep the handling nice and smooth. At the price they go for it isn't worth it to try and squeeze out another 1000km just to save the price of a fancy coffee.


Mark

[salty_monk]

I'm actually liking the 712's better than I like the Roadriders...

[Chuck78]

How do you fellas feel about the 712 versus the 230? The 712 I believe is marketed as more of a sport tire, but I was under the impression that they would get twice the mileage of the 230 Tour Master in the real world? Based on Brian's observations, he gets the same mileage out of both! He is substantially more sizable than myself, and his bike as well, but we both probably have a similar riding style from what I gathered of his years ago...

I don't commute on my bike, and don't do a ton of city riding, it is more of an escape vehicle to get out into the Southeast Ohio hills and into West Virginia and beyond as much as I can. It is a 45 minute or so ride to get to the edge of where the glaciers stopped, so I do get a good bit of upright riding in before the fun stuff where it seems like the bike is leaned over one way or the other far more than it is upright. I run the Shinko SR741 140/70-18 on the rear, which I believe is identical in compound to the 230 Tour Master 100/90-18 that I run in the front.
On the rear, I have not made it to 5000 miles yet! By 3800, they are looking like they need changed soon, and get worn flat down the middle. To re-appropriate a comment on Brian's riding style from years ago, I also ride like a flaming bat out of hell... I still keep buying them over and over again because I feel like they grip a lot better than the Avon roadriders do. I know people love the Avon AM26 Road Riders,, but I did not get as good of a feeling out of the front when pushing it hard, leaned over in tight turns on a substantially modified 467 lb GS750 +150lb rider, and I've had the back step out on me many times ( this is beyond what happens from me continually adding more horsepower to the engine)
When I give it a whole lot of throttle, I can get the big 140/70-18 Shinko to break loose as well, but it's a lot less scary and more predictable, and actually really fun...drifting! The AM26 did not feel sure-footed and would break loose in a way that would scare the **** out of me...


On the other hand, I always recommend the am26 roadrider to people who do a lot more city riding and long-distance highway riding than myself, because so many people still continually compliment the way they handle and corner.
Last season I stuck with a Shinko up front and put a Battlax BT45 V on the rear because they are supposedly a dual compound rear, but still supposedly wear out in about 5,000 miles. So far, it has not flatted across the rear, and I rode it out of state several times to the West Virginia mountains. I did not keep track of the mileage on this one though.

I have put Shinko 230's on two friends bikes who put some decent mileage on them, a GS550 & a GS750, and they are not experiencing the rear tire wear that I do! One is heavier than me on a 750, the other is similar weight on a GS550.

I'm out it up and identical set up as mine on a KZ1000 with the same size rims, 3.5 x 18 rear, 2.5 x 18 front. My buddy had come off of a CBR900RR previously, and purchased an RC engineering built KZ1000. The first time he rode these tires was on a trip to West Virginia several years back. He kept looking at me and looking at the tires and telling me how he couldn't get over how well the tires gripped, and he kept pushing it more and more, and the tires kept doing their job very well and were very predictable...

Basically all I will consider are Battlax BT45V from Bridgestone, these Shinko 230's front and rear & SR741 rears (230 doesn't come in bigger rears, the SR740 doesn't come in the right front size), and Pirelli Sport Demons. The Pirelli rear wears out just as fast as the Shinko and costs double! They do handle a little bit better than the others, but not once they get worn in a lot. I read some pretty good race track track day shootout comparisons between a couple of tires, and the Bridgestone came out on top, but the fastest lap times consistently were the fresh Pirellis, but once the Pirelli suffer from some noticeable wear, they were not as fast.

[bwringer]

Checking in on The Thread That Will Not Die...

My GS850G is currently wearing a set of the Shinko 712s. They got a pretty good thrashing in Missouri last fall. The rear might have 500 miles or so left on it, so it'll be well under 3,000 when I change it.

Still, they work great and I'll probably toss another set on sometime in the next few months. At $112.01 shipped for a set from my favorite moto-emporium, it's hard to go wrong.

[salty_monk]

To bring this back from the dead again.. I just spooned on a set of the 712's. Initial feeling is pretty good... way better than the worn out (more age than tread depth) tyres I took off... Similar to the Avon's maybe a bit better feel on the front (I always thing the Avons tend to fall away into the corners a bit).

I will report back on longevity when I get there. I expect it will be 5k on the rear. A Roadrider does me about 8500 ish on the skunk.

[Steve]

And it's also great to see another data point from Steve -- as I've seen many times, "normal" riders ...

Yaayyy, I'm finally "normal"!!

Brian, I bring up your review of the tires to those who are considering "inexpensive" tires. I also point out, as you do, your physical attributes and riding style. I resurrected the thread when I saw how many miles were on MY tires and the condition they were in. I am certainly not in the same riding category as you, but you did not have to wait that long for me in Missouri.

.