Shinko 230 Torture Test

[Buffalo Bill]

Thanks Brian and Steve, long term thinkers and members.
I've been riding Shinko 217 and had them on the track when new. I don't ride more than 2000 miles per year, but search for every corner in my area.
I was considering replacing the 217s with 230s for the V rating, and looks like I will.
I had my 1100G up at 115mph recently and a blowout at that speed would result in a long slide. Having read about (Mr Unlucky) Barry Sheene's 1975 tire blowout on the banks of Daytona during practice, a long enough slide will probably grind through any leather suit made.

[Chuck78]

I got about 6000mi out of the front Shinko 230 and it still has a few thousand left, but I swapped to a different wheel set.
The rear sr741 (same compound as 230) lasted about 3700mi or so before the tread was notably flat and had not the best lean in transitions. By 4300mi or so, I threw in the towel and bought a brand new exact replacement, because the price point is so good and the first 2800mi of cornering performance was AMAZING.
Pirelli Sport Demons are very similar but grip slightly better and also wear slightly better. They are proven to get the fastest lap times in the early wear stages, but also proven to need replacing the soonest of the street& track tires tested. The treadwear caused the amazing grip to go away after they started to get really worn in.

Avon AM26 RoadRider's give great grip for an excellent wearing/mileage performance tire, but I have had numerous slips in turns on those (an almost new 100mi-only used set came on a nice set of Sun Rims laced on gs1000 hubs that I bought from a member so I figured I'd wear them out). Havin th ed tires momentarily break loose when not even scraping hard parts or dragging your knee us quite unnerving.

I can do long burnouts with the Avons from throttle roll-ons from a stop in 1st gear, and they rarely leave black rubber marks on the road. I skid the rear brake some, & same. Spinning the rear 150/70-18 Avon occasionally gets it warmed up enough to really hook and turn a throttle roll-on burnout into a power wheelie when the tire hooks. With the 140/70-18 Shinko, the front end would be sky high much sooner (better hook up off the line) after a short bit of tire spin
The Avon is the best tire however if you want good rear tire treadwear mileage.
I am going to start trying Bridgestone Battlax BT45V rears (bt45 comes in our standard sizes, the BT45V is same but wider/lower profile).
They are a dual compound but still very soft. Will wear longer than a pirelli or Shinko but still have the ultra sift side profiles for cornering.

For the gs425 racer build, it's going to be Pirelli all the way (substantially lighter bike = much better treadwear, & stickier tire needed to plant it) Although I have considered running a BT45V rear on all of the 4cyl bikes and Pirelli Sport Demon in the front.
I may consider the Shinko SR741 130/70-18 on a 3.5 rim on the rear of the gs400/425/450 bikes with a Sport Demon 110/80-18 front on 2.5x18 rims.
I don't believe there will be much harm in mixing and matching those different model tires front and rear, as they are fairly similar. Real world tests will see.

[GS1150Pilot]

I mounted Metzler Roadtecs on the GSX-R wheels I'm installing on the 1150. Haven't run Metzlers in years, but they were the right size, the right price, and get generally solid reviews.

[Buffalo Bill]

I started with Bridgestone BT45s, sure great grip, but the rear wore out in 5000 miles with the final 2000 squared off.
I was disgusted with that so I tried the unknown Shinko's for half the price. I think I'm on my 3rd Shinko rear. Getting the same mileage.
Glad you mentioned your slick experience with the Avons, just seems to make sense, you give up grip for long life. I want grip.
I ride with lower tire pressures too, so they warm up fast for me.

[mmattockx]

They are a dual compound but still very soft. Will wear longer than a pirelli or Shinko but still have the ultra sift side profiles for cornering.

I started with Bridgestone BT45s, sure great grip, but the rear wore out in 5000 miles with the final 2000 squared off.

I had BT45's on my 1100E before the 230's I have now. The rear made it ~6000km and had a major flat spot in the center well before the 6000km mark. They stuck OK but certainly didn't wear well for me and I'm usually pretty easy on tire wear. The 230's offer enough grip (so far) and look to be wearing much better. I did over 400km yesterday putting me up around 2100km on this set and the back looks new still, just scuffed but not worn.


Mark

[posplayr]

You can go thru the first two layers of canvas before they blow..




Tracton gets a bit iffy around the first layer...

Usally once you wear thru the tread compond the very thin soft rubber will blister n bubble over the first layer of canvas, you can feel this when riding. Also once your wearing the canvas the wheel will spin up more and more easily, wearing even faster.
your demise follows soon after...

(pic is sidecar touring, not burn out..)

What I do to extend the mileage is to let the air out before a road hazard does it and put a strap around the entire circumference of the tire pulling the center to the rim. Now you can run on the rim but protected by the outer edges where there is still rubber.








NOT

[bwringer]

Very strange to see this thread dug up from the grave four years later!

And it's also great to see another data point from Steve -- as I've seen many times, "normal" riders usually get about twice the mileage I usually do. I am willfully aberrant.

I ride the GS much less these days, and I'm seriously considering spooning on a set of the Shinko 230s next just so I can change them every year or so and keep the rubber fresh.

Or, maybe I can just invest in some black shoe polish and shave the corners off with a butcher knife like Burt Munro in "World's Fastest Indian"...



Here's another example, but not from a GS. This is the rear tire on my V-Strom after perpetrating various curvaceous antics in Missouri. Crispy!


Aaaaaaaand here it is dead at just under 4,000 miles. This is a new adventure tire from Avon, the TrailRider, and there are reliable reports of normal people getting nearly 15,000 miles on a set. Oh well. Kinda neat how you can see the division between the rubber compounds. Not neat how there's less than 0.5mm of tread left in the center.

[Steve]

And it's also great to see another data point from Steve -- as I've seen many times, "normal" riders ...

Yaayyy, I'm finally "normal"!!

Brian, I bring up your review of the tires to those who are considering "inexpensive" tires. I also point out, as you do, your physical attributes and riding style. I resurrected the thread when I saw how many miles were on MY tires and the condition they were in. I am certainly not in the same riding category as you, but you did not have to wait that long for me in Missouri.

.

[salty_monk]

To bring this back from the dead again.. I just spooned on a set of the 712's. Initial feeling is pretty good... way better than the worn out (more age than tread depth) tyres I took off... Similar to the Avon's maybe a bit better feel on the front (I always thing the Avons tend to fall away into the corners a bit).

I will report back on longevity when I get there. I expect it will be 5k on the rear. A Roadrider does me about 8500 ish on the skunk.

[bwringer]

Checking in on The Thread That Will Not Die...

My GS850G is currently wearing a set of the Shinko 712s. They got a pretty good thrashing in Missouri last fall. The rear might have 500 miles or so left on it, so it'll be well under 3,000 when I change it.

Still, they work great and I'll probably toss another set on sometime in the next few months. At $112.01 shipped for a set from my favorite moto-emporium, it's hard to go wrong.

[Chuck78]

How do you fellas feel about the 712 versus the 230? The 712 I believe is marketed as more of a sport tire, but I was under the impression that they would get twice the mileage of the 230 Tour Master in the real world? Based on Brian's observations, he gets the same mileage out of both! He is substantially more sizable than myself, and his bike as well, but we both probably have a similar riding style from what I gathered of his years ago...

I don't commute on my bike, and don't do a ton of city riding, it is more of an escape vehicle to get out into the Southeast Ohio hills and into West Virginia and beyond as much as I can. It is a 45 minute or so ride to get to the edge of where the glaciers stopped, so I do get a good bit of upright riding in before the fun stuff where it seems like the bike is leaned over one way or the other far more than it is upright. I run the Shinko SR741 140/70-18 on the rear, which I believe is identical in compound to the 230 Tour Master 100/90-18 that I run in the front.
On the rear, I have not made it to 5000 miles yet! By 3800, they are looking like they need changed soon, and get worn flat down the middle. To re-appropriate a comment on Brian's riding style from years ago, I also ride like a flaming bat out of hell... I still keep buying them over and over again because I feel like they grip a lot better than the Avon roadriders do. I know people love the Avon AM26 Road Riders,, but I did not get as good of a feeling out of the front when pushing it hard, leaned over in tight turns on a substantially modified 467 lb GS750 +150lb rider, and I've had the back step out on me many times ( this is beyond what happens from me continually adding more horsepower to the engine)
When I give it a whole lot of throttle, I can get the big 140/70-18 Shinko to break loose as well, but it's a lot less scary and more predictable, and actually really fun...drifting! The AM26 did not feel sure-footed and would break loose in a way that would scare the **** out of me...


On the other hand, I always recommend the am26 roadrider to people who do a lot more city riding and long-distance highway riding than myself, because so many people still continually compliment the way they handle and corner.
Last season I stuck with a Shinko up front and put a Battlax BT45 V on the rear because they are supposedly a dual compound rear, but still supposedly wear out in about 5,000 miles. So far, it has not flatted across the rear, and I rode it out of state several times to the West Virginia mountains. I did not keep track of the mileage on this one though.

I have put Shinko 230's on two friends bikes who put some decent mileage on them, a GS550 & a GS750, and they are not experiencing the rear tire wear that I do! One is heavier than me on a 750, the other is similar weight on a GS550.

I'm out it up and identical set up as mine on a KZ1000 with the same size rims, 3.5 x 18 rear, 2.5 x 18 front. My buddy had come off of a CBR900RR previously, and purchased an RC engineering built KZ1000. The first time he rode these tires was on a trip to West Virginia several years back. He kept looking at me and looking at the tires and telling me how he couldn't get over how well the tires gripped, and he kept pushing it more and more, and the tires kept doing their job very well and were very predictable...

Basically all I will consider are Battlax BT45V from Bridgestone, these Shinko 230's front and rear & SR741 rears (230 doesn't come in bigger rears, the SR740 doesn't come in the right front size), and Pirelli Sport Demons. The Pirelli rear wears out just as fast as the Shinko and costs double! They do handle a little bit better than the others, but not once they get worn in a lot. I read some pretty good race track track day shootout comparisons between a couple of tires, and the Bridgestone came out on top, but the fastest lap times consistently were the fresh Pirellis, but once the Pirelli suffer from some noticeable wear, they were not as fast.

[salty_monk]

I'm actually liking the 712's better than I like the Roadriders...

[mmattockx]

How do you fellas feel about the 712 versus the 230? The 712 I believe is marketed as more of a sport tire

I was under the impression it was the opposite, that the 230's were more of a performance tire while the 712's were more of a mileage tire. The 230's are all V speed rated while the 712's are all H rated. I think the 712 is the older design as well, but I'm not certain of that.

I'm running the 230's on my 1100E and am enjoying them. My mileage is similar to yours, the rear has just under 6100km on it now (~3750mi) and is pretty flat in the middle. No funky handling yet from the flat spot, but there will be eventually. There is still tread left and it could go for a while yet but I am replacing it this spring to keep the handling nice and smooth. At the price they go for it isn't worth it to try and squeeze out another 1000km just to save the price of a fancy coffee.


Mark

[Nessism]

I was under the impression it was the opposite, that the 230's were more of a performance tire while the 712's were more of a mileage tire. The 230's are all V speed rated while the 712's are all H rated. I think the 712 is the older design as well, but I'm not certain of that.

I'm running the 230's on my 1100E and am enjoying them. My mileage is similar to yours, the rear has just under 6100km on it now (~3750mi) and is pretty flat in the middle. No funky handling yet from the flat spot, but there will be eventually. There is still tread left and it could go for a while yet but I am replacing it this spring to keep the handling nice and smooth. At the price they go for it isn't worth it to try and squeeze out another 1000km just to save the price of a fancy coffee.


Mark

I was under the same belief: 230 > 712 from the performance standpoint. Doubt it really makes much difference though. I wouldn't use either of those tires if truly pushing up to the 130 mph H speed rating level.

Regarding squared off treads, that's pretty normal for guys that don't ride in the twisties all the time. I've never noticed any handling issues with tires worn this way though. If you really get into a corner you will be past the square edge anyway.

[salty_monk]

I've noticed in the transition when they are really worn, more so on my KLR as I guess they are running from a smooth square worn out bit to a chunk block (I use 50/50 tyres).

You get a no turn, no turn, no turn, fall over sort of feeling if that makes sense as it rides up on the edge & then goes past it.