Sonic or Progressive fork springs, abandon air shock?

[salty_monk]

Heck for that kind of money, I would just swap my front end with a late model set of inverted forks...something I can't seem to get my mind off of even though my '83 forks are freshly rebuilt

You might think a front end swap is cheaper but it really isn't by the time you've messed with bearings, steerer stops, mounting gauges & ignition, conventional bar mounts, dealt with the reduced length (fork extensions or different exhaust sometimes necessary) etc.

[JonnyC]

Yeah, like any project I do, I have to expect to pay at least twice as much as I've budgeted for

[mrbill5491]

Yeah, like any project I do, I have to expect to pay at least twice as much as I've budgeted for

I know I did, lordy did I.

[tkent02]

So you've mentioned a few times now... you've yet to elaborate why though!

To elaborate:

I have a BMW (R1100RT) with zero brake dive, another (F800GS) with better brakes and nothing done to control brake dive, and a fairly long travel suspension. A 650G with great brakes, cartridge emulators and heavier springs… And a GS1100G with even better brakes, (the Saltymonk twin pot Kawasaki mod, excellent) and completely stock original suspension. There is also a couple long suspension travel dual sports with soft springs. They don't have a lot of brakes, but they do dive a lot.

There really isn't much difference in riding those that dive and those that don't.
A couple quick pokes on the brake to calibrate myself to the bike and it just doesn't matter. Any diving they may do just doesn't get noticed, it's just how they are. It does not detract noticably from stopping performance or anything else.

I'd rather let it dive a bit and enjoy a nice comfortable ride than stiffen it up so it hurts to go down the road.

The whole anti-dive thing got started in about 1980, before that it was just how motorcycles were, it was no big deal until the magazines started touting the anti-dive crap. Now it's considered a bad thing by some folks, and those who don't know just assume they can't allow this dreaded brake dive, that there is something wrong they need to spend money to fix, and in so doing lose the comfortable ride.

Brake dive is no big deal.

[Steve]

Brake dive is no big deal.

Put on some Earle's forks and you won't have any dive.

Actually, depending on how good your brakes are, you might have some lift.

.

[tkent02]

Put on some Earle's forks and you won't have any dive.

No thanks.

[mrbill5491]

No thanks.

Ditto.....

[salty_monk]

To elaborate:

I have a BMW (R1100RT) with zero brake dive, another (F800GS) with better brakes and nothing done to control brake dive, and a fairly long travel suspension. A 650G with great brakes, cartridge emulators and heavier springs… And a GS1100G with even better brakes, (the Saltymonk twin pot Kawasaki mod, excellent) and completely stock original suspension. There is also a couple long suspension travel dual sports with soft springs. They don't have a lot of brakes, but they do dive a lot.

There really isn't much difference in riding those that dive and those that don't.
A couple quick pokes on the brake to calibrate myself to the bike and it just doesn't matter. Any diving they may do just doesn't get noticed, it's just how they are. It does not detract noticably from stopping performance or anything else.

I'd rather let it dive a bit and enjoy a nice comfortable ride than stiffen it up so it hurts to go down the road.

The whole anti-dive thing got started in about 1980, before that it was just how motorcycles were, it was no big deal until the magazines started touting the anti-dive crap. Now it's considered a bad thing by some folks, and those who don't know just assume they can't allow this dreaded brake dive, that there is something wrong they need to spend money to fix, and in so doing lose the comfortable ride.

Brake dive is no big deal.

I think it depends how you ride, whether you overspec the springs to try to compensate, how loaded up you are etc.

A smooth rider not pushing too hard might be hard pressed to tell the difference (given the same spring & oil weight).

I think the mistake that most make is to try to compensate in other ways with a stiff spring or lots of preload or increased oil weight & that then just completely ruins the ride quality.

My KLR is much more settled both on & off road with emulators fitted. Haven't tried them in the Skunk yet (but I have ridden other GS's with them fitted that felt great). A good working Anti dive fork setup on an 83 1100ES feels good too although the brakes usually feel like crap....

On my GS750 with the GSXR bits I never did get the emulators dialled in exactly to my preference but I could definitely tell the difference with & without. I agree that whatever the bike you should be able to adjust a ride within it's capabilities. One time when I have found better controlled brake dive especially beneficial is with a passenger on the back (helps to avoid throwing them forward into you under braking. This also depends on the passenger of course!)

[tkent02]

I do like the emulators, but its a ride quality thing.

[tatu]

I like brake dive.

Me too, compressing the spring soaks up a heap of energy, and helps on the tighter turns, ideal braking hard into the turn on the lean and then back hard on the throttle to pick the bike up on the way out.