Tube or tubeless

[Guest]

Hi all I've got a 1977 gs750 running mag wheels that had tubes in can I enlarge the valve hole and use tubeless tyres or is this a recipe for disaster??

Thanks daryl

[Nessism]

Some people adapt and others don't. There are pros and cons both ways. There are at least a dozen long threads on this topic in the archive if you care to learn from what's been said before.

[mmattockx]

Hi all I've got a 1977 gs750 running mag wheels that had tubes in can I enlarge the valve hole and use tubeless tyres or is this a recipe for disaster??

The issue is that the rims aren't designed to properly hold the bead on a tubeless tire. The correct designation for a tubeless rim is "MT". If your rim size is marked with that then you are good to go. If not then you are taking your chances on having a tire deflate and come off the rim. Personally, tubes aren't that big of a PITA that I am willing to risk a catastrophic tire failure while I am sailing down the highway. YMMV

A second question is if there is enough material around the valve stem hole to properly install a tubeless stem. I have never looked at that so can't say if it is good to go or not.


Mark

[mrbill5491]

Hi all I've got a 1977 gs750 running mag wheels that had tubes in can I enlarge the valve hole and use tubeless tyres or is this a recipe for disaster??

Thanks daryl

I ran tubeless for awhile until I became a member of the forum and found out more info on the subject, I went back to tubes on my bike. Though if you decided to go tubeless NAPA has a valve stem that will fit the small hole. Don't recall the part number though it is buried in this forum section somewhere.

[chuck hahn]

Bike Master tubeless valve stems. Two big flat rubber washers..one for each side of the rim....done. I run tubeless on my stock 78 1000E and the Cooley rims and have never had a problem.

[astradaryl]

Thanks for the replys.
seams some do and some don't

[Nessism]

The issue is that the rims aren't designed to properly hold the bead on a tubeless tire. The correct designation for a tubeless rim is "MT". If your rim size is marked with that then you are good to go. If not then you are taking your chances on having a tire deflate and come off the rim. Personally, tubes aren't that big of a PITA that I am willing to risk a catastrophic tire failure while I am sailing down the highway. YMMV

A second question is if there is enough material around the valve stem hole to properly install a tubeless stem. I have never looked at that so can't say if it is good to go or not.


Mark

The early "tubeless" GS front wheels (early Kawasaki fronts too) didn't have the humps to hold the tire on the bead. Apparently both those companies didn't think there was "risk a catastrophic failure" like you site.

[chuck hahn]

Gregory has been running tubeless on his stock 78 1000E rims for quite a while also and he hasnt had 1 problem so far.

[Vmass]

What's the down side to sticking with a tube?

On something as important as tires, I try and stick with the factory specs.

[chuck hahn]

There isnt a down side..other than the added price of the tube itself.

[derwood]

down side to tubes? flats are easier to deal with if you run tubeless.
can't plug the tire safely if it has a tube .
I have plugged tube type ( on alloy wheels) that have a bolt-in valve stem, but i crossed my fingers.
usually the tube is wrecked if you get a flat while riding, so it can't be patched, you could carry extra tubes like on the bicycle, but it takes up precious space and then the wheel has to come off to fix it in the middle of nowhere. ( if you remembered the tire irons)
I like plugs and a can or two of "instant spare"

I ran tubeless on my old 81 400 with no issues (factory tubes) it's gone now, but I have gone tubeless on the wheel barrow with no issues so far.

[themess]

What's the down side to sticking with a tube? ....

Heat build up. Tubes rub against the inside of the tire. The friction generates heat. The lower the air pressure and the higher the speed, the more heat is generated. Since most riders don't press their tires anywhere near the limit, the increase in heat buildup is not likely to cause any problems. FWIW, the types of rubber used in tubes and innerliner are the types of rubber that generate the most heat when flexed.

[mmattockx]

The early "tubeless" GS front wheels (early Kawasaki fronts too) didn't have the humps to hold the tire on the bead. Apparently both those companies didn't think there was "risk a catastrophic failure" like you site.

I am simply stating the official info on the MT bead profile. The MT rim also has a different angle where the bead seats, it isn't just the extra lip. As I said, YMMV.


Mark

[Rob S.]

Personally, tubes aren't that big of a PITA that I am willing to risk a catastrophic tire failure while I am sailing down the highway. YMMV

+1

Recently replaced front and rear rubber; wanted to go as big and best as possible on the stock "snowflakes."

Was told Pirelli Sport Demons (or their equivalent) was it (I bought the Pirellis). Was told the snowflakes weren't designed for the best modern tires/there were no modern tires designed for my snowflakes.

I wouldn't feel comfortable pushing hard with wheels and tires that weren't designed for each other.

[lurch12_2000]

The issue is that the rims aren't designed to properly hold the bead on a tubeless tire. ....If not then you are taking your chances on having a tire deflate and come off the rim. Personally, tubes aren't that big of a PITA that I am willing to risk a catastrophic tire failure while I am sailing down the highway. YMMV

A second question is if there is enough material around the valve stem hole to properly install a tubeless stem. I have never looked at that so can't say if it is good to go or not.


Mark

I don't believe the lip is going to have any bearing on a tubeless tire coming off the rim at highway speeds unless you are way under-inflated, but rather if you had a sudden flat first, then the lip will in theory help keep the bead from moving. I'd venture that a tubed tire gone flat is going to present a problem at highway speed too. If you hit a curb it might keep the bead from moving inward but if you hit a curb at speed you will be worrying about staying on the bike period.
I've converted many years of GS bikes to tubeless with tens of thousands of problem free miles. I have very little chicken strip and push the old GSes to triple digit speeds. It's up to each to decide if there is a risk. You might be able to find thinner tubeless valve stems online that fit right in the existing rim hole, or the local dealer will have thicker tubeless valve stems that require careful drilling to enlarge the rim hole.
I've had some issues with mounting a tube in the tire by pinching it and ruining the tube. My fault but it does happen. I think others have had the same mistake but won't admit it. So yeah another $10-15 for a new tube is a downside. The heat from friction could raise that issue for real aggressive riders and in long hot highway riding temps like across the desert or the south.
The issue with tubeless is sometimes without a good compressor the bead doesn't always seat especially if the tire has been stored flat. A tie down ratchet strap carefully located around the circumference of the tire will help keep it in place while inflated along with generous use of tire lube. You could use the explosive lighter fuel trick but that looks pretty sketchy. Also clean your rim well before mounting to get the old rubber scraps off so there's a smooth surface for the new tire bead to slip in place properly and possible create slow air leak points.
Also mentioned is the option of roadside repair plugs for tubeless tires that is a huge item when travelling distances along desolate stretches.
BTW, you still have to break the bead for tube type tires when removing and they are just as stuck on from age too. Then you have to pry the tube out because it's "glued" from age. I've even had some tear trying to remove since they were so "one" with the rim or inner wall of the tire!