5W-30 instead of 10W for fork oil?

[Pendulum]

Can anyone say how 5W-30/ATF blend would compare to 10W-30/ATF in front forks? I've got a whole bunch of new 5W-30 sitting here that's never going to be used for anything else (since I no longer own any cages).

 

[tom203]

Personally , I'd think straight 5-30 or even 10-30 is too thin for forks. If you have a bunch of 5-30, sell it, as lots of cars use it and folks love to save money. I'm paying about $3 a quart in NE for generic 5-30 .works good as chainsaw bar oil too!

 

[trippivot]

Are you saying you want to use engine oil in your suspension? - better off putting it on your pancakes- since you need someone to tell you where it does NOT belong!

suspension oil is special in the anti foaming properties it has. I use spectro brand fork oil, they offer many 5-10-20-choices - for fattys or rebound. I have not heard of multi viscosity transmission fluid . dextron or type F ?? 10 weight old school lazy rubber swelling crap.

multi viscosity fluids are thin when cold and thick when hot? plus the foamy air bubble thing --messes up compression dampening. motor oil in forks - what a mess.

 

[Pendulum]

Are you saying you want to use engine oil in your suspension? - better off putting it on your pancakes- since you need someone to tell you where it does NOT belong!

suspension oil is special in the anti foaming properties it has. I use spectro brand fork oil, they offer many 5-10-20-choices - for fattys or rebound. I have not heard of multi viscosity transmission fluid . dextron or type F ?? 10 weight old school lazy rubber swelling crap.

multi viscosity fluids are thin when cold and thick when hot? plus the foamy air bubble thing --messes up compression dampening. motor oil in forks - what a mess.

According to the manuals and many posts on here, 10W-30 and ATF mixed 50/50 is what the forks call for. I know more than a little about suspension, so check the attitude, chief.

 

[Brendan W]

I'm blending 10W40 and Dex III atf with target of a 15W fork oil. I'm changing every six months as there is still junk coming out the fork. Think the mix is 70:30. The ATF has a bigger effect on viscosity than the heavier oils so if your target is halfway between the two you won't go 50:50.

 

[78550GS]

According to the manuals and many posts on here, 10W-30 and ATF mixed 50/50 is what the forks call for. I know more than a little about suspension, so check the attitude, chief.

I'm not here to flame anyone, but you have only 15 posts so far, and you are throwing attitude out to some one who has been a regular poster on here for years? I didn't think any of that $hit happened here.

Let's all try to keep it civil around here.

I don't know about your oil situation, but I will be watching this anyway since I need to do seals on mine.

 

[Pendulum]

I'm not here to flame anyone, but you have only 15 posts so far, and you are throwing attitude out to some one who has been a regular poster on here for years? I didn't think any of that $hit happened here.

Let's all try to keep it civil around here.

I don't know about your oil situation, but I will be watching this anyway since I need to do seals on mine.

Re-read his post. He's the one that had an attitude. Whether in person or on the internet, if someone wants to talk to me like that I'm calling them on it. You can tell someone they're doing something wrong without being an *******.

I've been around here a while, but at some point my account disappeared or something. Probably during a migration/upgrade of forum software. I've been a member since like 2010, and have contributed a pretty decent amount to electrical threads and a lot of 550-specific information.

Now, back on topic:
After further reading, I'm gonna run actual fork oil. I guess going by the manual doesn't apply here since times have changed and fork oil isn't a rarity like it was in the late 70s. If you're doing the fork seals on your 550, take a look at my thread about it. There's some stuff on the 550 that's different from all of the guides I've seen.

 

[GSXR7ED]

Fork Oil Info

Fork Oil Info

I'm here for the info on fork oil because I will need to replace the gaskets/boots.

Tripivot can be rough around the edges but just sift through key points and disregard his manners.


Ed

 

[78550GS]

I will look into your posts on 550 forks Pendulum, thank you. I wasn't looking to pi$$ anyone off. And I realize some here come off as very caustic. What I always have to remember is that everyone is here to help one another.

 

[Guest]

I'm here for the info on fork oil because I will need to replace the gaskets/boots.

Tripivot can be rough around the edges but just sift through key points and disregard his manners.

Ed

The 30w fork oil we used on your bike is working fine with the weak springs. Now if you decide to go with some new/stiffer fork springs, then dropping the weight down should be considered. As for the fork oil it self, plenty of specific fork oils and weight choices out there now to make anyone happy. Just remember not all the brand weights are the same.

 

[Nessism]

It's true that Suzuki specifies motor oil and/or a motor oil and ATF mix in some service manuals. I don't think there is anything wrong with going this way. The key thing is to get the oil thickness that matches your needs. The first number (5W or 10W) is the important number because that indicates cold temp thickness. A 10W-30 and 10W-40 will both be the same thickness at room temperature, it's only at high temp where the thickness will vary.

I suspect 5W oil will be too light. Can't hurt to try though. If you don't like the ride change it out again.

 

[trippivot]

shocking - use the right fluid or look stupid.

shocking - use the right fluid or look stupid.

mix isopropyl alcohol and gear lube to a proportion to 15 weight for all I care.... hell ketchup and vinegar will get you there too.

my experience is branded in success - Decades of it - and that is no reason to respect me - mater of fact I hope you do all of your own mechanical work - foregoing every bit of wisdom offered here.. I am guessing your perspective of success means so much more after huge failures.

but I love to discuss fluid dynamics and the properties of different fluids, the measureable linear effect relating to compression and rebound dampening when a fluid is not a pure fluid. What and how chemical combinations change the liquid as a whole. Said fluid under pressure or static? Emulsified air mixed into a fluid and how to manage the foaming to maintain a steady resistance , heat presents a second challenge to the steady resistance. spring rate and air pressure , hence a third issue of a moving target . let alone bushing friction and tubular bind, aka stiction. odd oils effecting rubber seal integrity .... Your traction is effected by all of these things as you motor over a bumpy road. , So this is the ground level of an open discussion and I like to hear about your knowledge and experience.

every written word since the dawn of time is not valuable and relevant as it relates to single dampening rod suspension technology. Let's also include modern synthetic fluids as they apply to the old way to bend fluids and create resistance.

I have an attitude - and attitude for success. and attitude for solutions , and an attitude against ignorance...

what happened to the rookie that worked on his own bike? he's dead - never seen it coming. ask me how common that statement is in the motorcycle industry?

if you can't just buy fork oil or admit it is the best thing for the task --- maybe use the search feature and do some research.

 

[GSXR7ED]

Oils and Lubricants

Oils and Lubricants

The 30w fork oil we used on your bike is working fine with the weak springs. Now if you decide to go with some new/stiffer fork springs, then dropping the weight down should be considered. As for the fork oil it self, plenty of specific fork oils and weight choices out there now to make anyone happy. Just remember not all the brand weights are the same.

Bill, I still have the container from when you messed with the forks on my "T" and made a mess in your shop when pressure released/exploded!

I'm staying with the current springs for the time being but will eventually go with stiffer suspension. Thanks for the info.

Ed

NOTE: Dang Jeff, you know a thing or two about "stuff". I'm not worthy!

 

[Pendulum]

if you can't just buy fork oil or admit it is the best thing for the task --- maybe use the search feature and do some research.

Since you still want to be a clown, here ya go:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ecking-fork-seals-fluid&p=2090761#post2090761
http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ecking-fork-seals-fluid&p=2090847#post2090847
http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...-Motor-oil-for-fork-oil&p=1933818#post1933818
http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...-Motor-oil-for-fork-oil&p=1933729#post1933729
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165
http://www.650central.com/tech/tips.htm
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1311892806
The last 3 links came from these Google queries:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=cafe racer fork oil
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=gs550+fork+oil

Plenty of people are using the engine oil/ATF blend. The manuals even say that's what you should use. Is it the best choice? Probably not, but I don't need the best performing option for this bike. I have a bunch of 5W-30 oil and ATF sitting here I'm unlikely to ever use, and my manual says engine oil + ATF is what to put in the forks. I did a quick search on here and Google, and see a bunch of people running engine oil + ATF but wanted some input on whether the 5W-30 would be too light. Turns out my suspicions are right. Since I'd have to buy 10W engine oil to get the viscosity I want, I'm just going to buy some fork oil. btw, it's "damping", not "dampening". Unless you're trying to get things wet. Don't feel bad, I've seen a lot of people make that mistake.

Instead of being a crusty old curmudgeon, why not try treating people with a bit of respect?

To everyone else:
Thank you for the help and your input. I think I'm gonna run 10W Maxima fork oil, since thats what Z1 has and I need to get a few things from them soon anyway.

 

[Nessism]

btw, it's "damping", not "dampening". Unless you're trying to get things wet. Don't feel bad, I've seen a lot of people make that mistake.

Instead of being a crusty old curmudgeon, why not try treating people with a bit of respect?

I wouldn't think twice about running motor oil in my forks.

 

[GSX1000E]

If the dust has settled, I run straight 5W-20 synthetic MOTOR OIL in these forks with '79 1000L front springs. It also has S&W 13.5" rear shocks and an 18" rear rim.
It rides close to ideal for me. (synthetic motor oil is full of anti-foaming additives BTW.)

 

[Gorminrider]

Fork fluid is Designed for forks. ATF+motoroil is not. It is more trouble but given that some original manuals include it, it has to be good enough at the least.
I've wondered why mc manufacturers recommend the mix or even ATF by itself...I've yet to be satisfied by answers I've found, so, I'll speculate.

Today, I think it's because ATF is anti-foaming, good with heat and seals and a consistent viscosity throughout temperature ranges...loosely speaking "7w" I think.It's a hydraulic fluid of a type.
ATF survives in automatic transmissions for a long time.it is tough but does not suffer "combustion" products. ATF alone in forks seems to get dirty pretty quick..perhaps it doesn't hold dirt/water in suspension as well as motoroil.
Multigrade motor oil has detergents and extra lubrication and is probably better at suspending abrasive crap. But barring modern synthetics, is not touted as "anti-foaming".(ie:"detergents,additives?) Say a 10w30 =30 "weight" at 212F degrees. What it is when you pour it in your forks is something less but roughly speaking in an engine, it's supposed to get pumped to wearing surfaces quickly and "thins" to 10w at a pretty cold temperature.

I would think that mixing ATF+10w40 isn't going to change viscosity much in forks without knowing it's "thickness" at the middling temperatures.

Fork oil was available at motorcycle stores in the 70's and before. I distinctly remember changing fork seals on my cl350 with it then.

Someone somewhere suggested MC manufacturers suggested ATF+ motoroil because they figured 3rd world countries wouldn't have "proper" fork fluid. This idea supposes that automatic transmissions were common in the outback...? The same manufacturers are very specific about other things, which does not gybe with an outlook on maintenance in the "3rd world".

 

[Grimly]

Can anyone say how 5W-30/ATF blend would compare to 10W-30/ATF in front forks? I've got a whole bunch of new 5W-30 sitting here that's never going to be used for anything else (since I no longer own any cages).

Was wondering exactly that, myself. I have several litres of 5W-30 left over from bulk purchase that isn't much use in the bikes. Recalled using 10W-40 and 20W50 blended with ATF in the past, as per various manuals' recommendations and had good enough results, but never used 5W-30 for this.
Of course, I'm not a do-or-die racing type, so don't notice the miniscule differences that might show up.

Fork oil was available at motorcycle stores in the 70's and before. I distinctly remember changing fork seals on my cl350 with it then.

Someone somewhere suggested MC manufacturers suggested ATF+ motoroil because they figured 3rd world countries wouldn't have "proper" fork fluid. This idea supposes that automatic transmissions were common in the outback...? The same manufacturers are very specific about other things, which does not gybe with an outlook on maintenance in the "3rd world".

Speaking from direct experience, I can tell you ATF was more commonly available than specialised fork oil where I grew up and even when it became more readily available was usually only to be found in the motorcycle dealers', where it was priced beyond reason. This state of affairs only changed relatively recently.

 

[GSXR7ED]

Abrasive Feedback

Abrasive Feedback

I will look into your posts on 550 forks Pendulum, thank you. I wasn't looking to pi$$ anyone off. And I realize some here come off as very caustic. What I always have to remember is that everyone is here to help one another.

Bingo! Yes, some are sharp to answer questions--if you haven't seen it by now, bookmark this thread.

At the end of the day it's about valuable information provided.

Ed

 

[trippivot]

my bike has spectro fork oil in it.

my bike has spectro fork oil in it.

respectfully, I would like to discuss suspension and getting a smoother ride - I am not a clown - nor clowning around. I happen to have an opinion - I work at a privateer motorcycle shop - that is how I feed my family. Giving out tips actually works against my professional bottom line - but since everyone considers themselves a motorcycle mechanic anyway, I might as well attempt elevate the understanding - lets move on.



Motorized bikes have not always had fluid telescopic fork suspension. -- can we agree about that? it is written it is documented.

ok airplanes had the first EVER telescopic fork suspension -- ok -- that technology applied to motor bikes when? .... ok now I am clowning around

what was the first type of oil used in hydro forks? pure whale oil - am I wrong? somebody stop me when I make a mistake


ok we probably use whatever we can get easily - and promise ourselves that we will change it quickly.