Rear Shock opinions/reviews

[Chuck78]

I was offering someone some advice on shocks, so I thought I would start a thread with my opinions & evaluations of a lot of good shocks here. Feel free to add comments.

#1 - rebuild forks first, modify for & add cartridge emulators & springs or chop the stockers, clean internals, inspect for stanchions' (upper/inner legs') chrome for anything that will cause sealing problems or damage the new fork seals. Now you have healthy forks and 4 valving circuits instead of 1 - high & low speed travel dampening for both compression & rebound, 1000% better than stock, plus a proper spring rate without the ill-advised pressurizing emulsion forks with air.

#2 address your rear shocks next, and spend $200-800 (as much as you can afford/justify) on rear shocks.

My advice, cheaper @ top to best @ bottom:

$200 Hagon or Progressive shocks sprung & valved for your bike/rider weight & riding style, passenger&luggage considered (goes for all shocks bought new)

$309 Hagon 2810 non-rebuildable but with 10 click adjustable rebound.

$350-$380 Ikon 7610 twin tube shock absorber - more consistent than a standard emulsion shock due to twin tube design. Rebuildable.

$450 YSS C-302 alloy body piggyback (oil & gas cushion are totally seperated for no foaming, more consistent dampening), valved&sprung custom for you. 12mm shaft 30mm piston, best dampening for the money as long as you don't need adjustable rebound (can dismantle & adjust if needed).

$500 Ikon 7614-1296 (clevis bottom is 1296, alloy body is 7614)
Same as the steel 7610 but infinite preload adj with threaded collar on aluminum body.

$500 YSS Z-362 12mm shaft 36mm piston self adjusting gas pressurized emulsion shock with 10mm +/- ride height adjustment and 60 clicks rebound adjustment - very nice! Self adjusting valving tries to compensate for foaming of oil (hence change in viscosity) after bumpy sections.


$570 YSS G-302-TRL piggyback style (oil&gas cushion are totally seperated for no foaming, more consistent dampening) 12mm shaft 30mm piston with 10mm +/- ride height adjustment and 60 clicks rebound adjustment - very nice!

$700 YSS G-302-TRCL same as above but also has 20 clicks compression dampening adjustment

$770 YSS G-362-TRCL same as above but the larger piston & oil capacity (more consistent dampening) but only 3 clicks compression adjustment (add $50 for 20 clicks comp adj)

$780 Gazi Hyper X - fully adjustable piggyback. less details on specs on website but similar to the YSS G-362-TRCL but 40mm piston & 15mm shaft. This is the only shock in their lineup that compares better than a similar YSS.

$$$$$ YSS Z-366 emulsion shocks and G-366 piggybacks - these big boys cost a few hundred more but have very stout 16mm shafts for those extreme riders or loaded tourer.

You get so much more out of YSS for the money than Ohlins, Wilbur's, or other high end offerings. YSS has made a strong effort for more than a decade to put out better and better quality products to keep on the cutting edge, and their quality shows as soon as you have one of these in your hands. Based in Thailand with an R&D/design office in Australia as well, and a USA headquarters on top of that. Gazi is also from Thailand.

The only shocks I have left out that I think deserve more are Works Performance & Fox's new line of Podium & Podium R's. Cognito Moto had Fox make some special runs of these tailored towards cafe racers and vintage bikes, and for around $600 standard & $900-1000 piggyback.

Also, for eye-to-eye only (no clevis), the $500-ish Hagon Nitro is a great shock.

[eil]

Looks like good info, thanks. But the text of the post is showing up as light grey which is making it almost impossible to read.

Seems I was also reading about a set of cheap shocks that can be made acceptable following a rebuild?

[Weapon]

if you mouse drag over the txt it will highlight it and make it blue and much easier to read.

[Chuck78]

Seems I was also reading about a set of cheap shocks that can be made acceptable following a rebuild?

RFY & TEC shocks, RFY being the cheaper. TEC are at least assembled with care to purge the air out, since they are piggybacks. Google search Chris Livengood RFY. Cheap Chinese shocks that can be reassembled with proper oil & proper purging, shorter modified top out springs, & nitrogen, & then they are decent riding shocks if you have a light or heavy bike. Intermediate bikes' spring needs are not addressed much by the RFY. No sources for seals, orings, piston ring wear bands, etc. Parts not available unless you research & source them yourself.

[8ball]

Two things regarding the first post. 1. Cartridge emulators (at least Rach Tech Gold ones) only affect compression damping. They can be adjusted for high and low speed damping (wafers for low and springs for high speed). Rebound is still handled by the damping rod, and is adjusted with oil wt., so you really only get three circuits of adjustment.

Also, as Chuck78 mentioned, the RFY and TEC shocks are n option, but the RFY, for sure will not be completely filled with oil, and the N2 charges are very inconsistent out of the box. I don't know about the TEC version, but if they use the same seal as the RFY, there is no way they got ALL the air out because the seal is 15mm tall and you assemble them upside down, so there will be air trapped inside the seal. They can be rebuilt, very easily, and they have a crap load of rebound damping. Compression, not so much, but they can be made to work fairly well. Below is a link to a rebuild thread I made on them on another forum. The rebuild is pretty easy, and modifying the top of the shock with a bleed hole allows a complete purge of the air. I got my bleed holes drilled and counter bored for about $20 at a local machine shop. You might be able to get it done for a case of the machinist's favorite beverage. I also replaced the seals (which wasn't really necessary) by stacking 2 (12mm X 32mm X 7mm) SKF seals, which cost me $12. The tools, I mead with stuff I had, and some long eye bolts from the hardware store for $5.

http://www.caferacer.net/forum/tips-tricks/24204-rebuilding-rfy-cheap-shocks.html

[Chuck78]

Two things regarding the first post. 1. Cartridge emulators (at least Race Tech Gold ones) only affect compression damping. They can be adjusted for high and low speed damping (wafers for low and springs for high speed). Rebound is still handled by the damping rod, and is adjusted with oil wt., so you really only get three circuits of adjustment.

http://www.caferacer.net/forum/tips-tricks/24204-rebuilding-rfy-cheap-shocks.html

Yes sorry I wasn't thinking... Low speed vs high speed dampening is only for compression. The emulators do not rely at all on the damper rods for rebound though, the emulators handle everything, as when installing emulators, you disable the damper rods by drastically enlarging the overall area of the openings (drilling them out larger and adding 2 additional holes to flow a massive amount compared to the original).

The long spring with the Allen bolt through it controls high speed compression dampening and is adjustable. The orifices control low speed compression. The larger ports with a large wafer disc check valve controls rebound dampening. Rebound is solely adjusted by oil viscosity. I would venture to say that low speed compression is also affected by viscosity. High speed compression is completely adjustable. Race tech & even the MikesXS emulators do a fantastic job of improving the dampening. With 15W, 3-1/4 to 3-1/2 turns preload, and a Tarozzi fork brace, great tires (& rebuilt piggyback Fox Factory Shox), my bike handles leaps & bounds better. I am incredibly happy with the end result...

http://www.racetech.com/page/title/Emulators-How%20They%20Work

[8ball]

....... The emulators do not rely at all on the damper rods for rebound though, the emulators handle everything, as when installing emulators, you disable the damper rods by drastically enlarging the overall area of the openings (drilling them out larger and adding 2 additional holes to flow a massive amount compared to the original).......

http://www.racetech.com/page/title/E...%20They%20Work

Not to argue, but this quote is from the link you provided (3rd to last paragraph):

"Let’s look at rebound (see figure 3.19). Installation of the Emulator does not change rebound damping, therefore, adjustment of rebound damping is made by changing the oil viscosity. Though it may not sound like it, this is still a significant change. In a standard damping rod fork with no Emulator, changing the oil’s viscosity will change rebound damping, but at the expensive of changing compression damping in a similar way. With an Emulator it doesn’t matter what weight oil is used to obtain ideal rebound damping because compression damping can be adjusted separately."


The holes you drill out are the compression holes. The rebound bleed holes, which are small, are left untouched.



...and yes, slow speed is controlled by the orifices in the emulators. I was mixing up my cartridge type metaphors. Sorry.

[Chuck78]

Oh yeah, now I do recall some smaller holes near the top out spring if I recall correctly. I need to look at a GS damper rod again. Its not adding up in my head currently. It is midnight...

[Chuck78]

"Chamber B" is where the oil is being forced out of on rebound, you are 100% correct. My bad. The check valve in the emulator that allows "Chamber A" to refill was what I was confusing with a dampening orifice/valve. So you gain independent high& low speed compression which is adjustable separate from the compression dampening via viscosity changes, at the expense of having to potentially re-adjust the compression dampening setting on the emulator to regain the same dampening as before but using a different viscosity oil.