Tubes or not, GS1000G?

[Guest]

I was surprised to find my GS1000G's tyres had tubes. These are cast wheel which I thought would be meant for tubeless tyres? Is it normal for these to be fitted with tubes? Is there and advantage (or disadvantage) to having tubes in a tubeless tyre?

[tkent02]

They went to the cast wheels in the late seventies, because they were cheaper to make than spokes, and were sort of in style at the time since the moto magazines jumped all over it as the next latest greatest thing ever, even though they are heavier than spoked wheels. Couple years later they went to the tubeless tires for motorcycles, and the cast wheels were redesigned for them. The difference is the wheel rims have a slightly different shape that is supposed to make it harder for a tire to come off the rim if it loses air suddenly. These will have "Tubeless Tire Applicable" cast on the wheel. Some of us have converted ordinary tube wheels to tubeless, others are scared to, but it's an easy thing to do if you have a drill to open up the valve stem hole to the right size for the tubeless valve stem.

[Crankthat]

After my first home tire install a few weeks ago on a tubeless rated rim and tubeless tires and finding the shop that had been doing my installs before had been using tubes I had the same questions.
I did not start a thread but instead did research outside the forum but received my deciding answer for my rims through a trusted member of this forum.
This is some info I have found out.

Not all cast wheels/rims are or considered tubeless.
Not all tires are tubeless.
There is a area of the rim the tire will seat to and a tubeless rim this area has a better angle for the tire to seat/seal. (much more pronounced on modern rims then the older GS rims)
It is obvious that a tire needs to seat well in any rim regardless of this.
There is much debate on this forum as to if it is safe to run tubeless on non tubeless rims. (Hence my unwillingness to start a thread)

If you run a tube in tubeless tire it cuts the speed rating for that tire due to the added friction that a tube will produce.

I know this will not really answer your question but I thought the answers I did put forth may help.
There will be others chiming in on this on if your rims can be ran tubeless or not.
I expect some debate with this question.

If you decide it is safe to go tubeless on your wheels/rims you will need valve stems that will work.
A member sent me this link and they were spot on for my application.
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/44692/i/bikemaster-chrome-tubeless-valve-stem


P.s. If you are doing the install yourself.
Proper tire lube found at auto stores is the easiest way to go.(very slick stuff)

I used the ziptie method to remove old rubber.
Worked great.
Not so great on my install.
Thinking it was the new radius and unbroken in sidewalls that would not flex that caused problems for me.
I stuck a hair dryer not to close, pointed inside tire for several minutes to soften sidewalls just a small bit.
Not long enough or hot enough to separate or warp rubber layers.
Worked so good.
Tire slipped on so easy.

[Steve]

Considering your location, I think I would have a chat with your local MOT inspector, if your bike is subject to inspection.

If an inspector with a keen eye sees a rim without the "Tubless Tyre Applicable" designation and notices valve stems typical of a tubeless tyre, it may not pass.

[Jon]

Some interesting replies, thanks. I'm not necessarily seeking to change to tubeless tyres if it was standard practice to have tubes in these 1980 bikes. I was really looking for answers as to whether my bike is meant to have tubes. It seems that it probably is - I suppose the valve fitting is the biggest clue to look for, didn't think of that!

I was hoping they would be tubeless as punctures are less likely and easier to prevent using that green slime (it isn't suitable for tubed tyres apparently).

[kingofvenus]

Proper tubeless rims are cheap and still easy to find. And so are tire changers, mine has paid for itself many times over.

[Jon]

Do you mean proper tubeless wheels? That will fit directly? If so, and if anyone can tell me which bike's wheel are a direct swap for a GS1000G, I'll start looking. But if the petrol tap (gascock, is that what you call it?) debacle is anything to go by, there'll be two dozen wheels that look about right but no way will they ever fit!

EDIT: Just clocked the tyre changers bit - I was thinking more about avoiding the need to try changing a tyre by the road, not at home in the workshop. Getting the back wheel out of this thing is a pretty major task in itself.

[Nessism]

First off, look at your wheels for the imprint "tubeless tire applicable" (or something to this effect). A lot of 1000G's have tubeless rims from the factory but Suzuki installed tubes because of the supply chain was mixed. If the rims are appropriately imprinted I'd go tubeless for sure. If the rims are not imprinted and you want to go tubeless you might want to look for some new wheels with the imprints. I know for a fact that a 17" Suzuki star wheel for shaft drive applications exists in the market, and the common 19" front does too. You just gotta go chase them down if your bike doesn't already have them.

For example, this link is to a 17" shaft drive wheel that is inscribed for tubeless. You just gotta find similar in your local market. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-SUZUKI-...67eed0&vxp=mtr

[Steve]

Getting the back wheel out of this thing is a pretty major task in itself.

Then you must be doing it incorrectly.

Not sure what you use over there for building lumber, but here we have boards that are a nominal 2" x 4" that we call "two by fours". Put the bike up on the center stand. Place a short length of 2x4 in front of the stand. Tilt the bike to the right, slide the board under the left side of the stand. Now lift the bike back to vertical (and slightly to the left), kick the board under the right side of the stand.

Loosen the axle nut. Remove the brake stay from the caliper holder. Remove one end of each shock so the wheel can drop down. Remove the axle. Slide the wheel to the right, away from the final drive. Roll the wheel out under the fender. Lifting the bike on the board gives it enough clearance to do that.

.

[Jon]

First off, look at your wheels for the imprint "tubeless tire applicable" (or something to this effect). A lot of 1000G's have tubeless rims from the factory but Suzuki installed tubes because of the supply chain was mixed. If the rims are appropriately imprinted I'd go tubeless for sure. If the rims are not imprinted and you want to go tubeless you might want to look for some new wheels with the imprints. I know for a fact that a 17" Suzuki star wheel for shaft drive applications exists in the market, and the common 19" front does too. You just gotta go chase them down if your bike doesn't already have them.

For example, this link is to a 17" shaft drive wheel that is inscribed for tubeless. You just gotta find similar in your local market. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-SUZUKI-...67eed0&vxp=mtr

Thanks Nessism, I think my bike already has tubeless wheels (but I can't check until Monday as it's away in the workshop). It'll be a slight ****er to have to remove wheels & tyres etc all over, but if it ends up with tubeless, it'll be worth it. Thanks again.

[Jon]

Then you must be doing it incorrectly.

Not sure what you use over there for building lumber, but here we have boards that are a nominal 2" x 4" that we call "two by fours". Put the bike up on the center stand. Place a short length of 2x4 in front of the stand. Tilt the bike to the right, slide the board under the left side of the stand. Now lift the bike back to vertical (and slightly to the left), kick the board under the right side of the stand.

Loosen the axle nut. Remove the brake stay from the caliper holder. Remove one end of each shock so the wheel can drop down. Remove the axle. Slide the wheel to the right, away from the final drive. Roll the wheel out under the fender. Lifting the bike on the board gives it enough clearance to do that.

.

We also have 2 by 4 timber here (other sizes too!). And you are probably right about doing it wrong. But unless I take an angle grinder to the small brackets/tabs or whatever you want to call them, that are by the silencer/rear footrest mounts, there's no way the swinging arm will move downward enough for the spindle to clear the silencers. This means it has to go upwards to get the spindle out, then downwards to get the wheel past the mudguard. The swinging arm with the wheel & tyre in weigh a ton.

To me, that adds up to a major job. But maybe I shouldn't be comparing things to Triumphs and Nortons, on which wheel removal isn't much more effort than for a bicycle.

[mrbill5491]

Some interesting replies, thanks. I'm not necessarily seeking to change to tubeless tyres if it was standard practice to have tubes in these 1980 bikes. I was really looking for answers as to whether my bike is meant to have tubes. It seems that it probably is - I suppose the valve fitting is the biggest clue to look for, didn't think of that!

I was hoping they would be tubeless as punctures are less likely and easier to prevent using that green slime (it isn't suitable for tubed tyres apparently).

You don't use that green slime in motorcycle tube or tubeless tires. What you do want to use if you can get it there is RIDE ON tire sealant. It can be used in tubeless or tubed tires. I use it in my tubed tires.

[Jon]

You don't use that green slime in motorcycle tube or tubeless tires. What you do want to use if you can get it there is RIDE ON tire sealant. It can be used in tubeless or tubed tires. I use it in my tubed tires.

Thanks for this info Mr Bill - any chance of a link, or just the full name of the product? I haven;t managed to find it so far by Googling that name. Even if it's only available in USA, I'll get some, as its the first I've heard of anything suitable for tubed tyres.

Cheers, jon

[Jon]

Update - after much searching, finally found somewhere that seels Ride-On Tire Sealant in the UK. Expensive stuff, but worth it by all reports. Thanks again for the tip, Bill

[bobgroger]

From what I can gather rear wheels started being Tubeless Applicable in 1980 or earlier. Front was 1981. So if you have the stock wheels you should have a rear tubeless and a front tube type. I got my front tubeless wheel from Mr. Nessism for barely the cost of shipping. Or you can go to the '82 wheels (look different but fit OK)