Dropping Bias tread from a GS650L, shafty

[Jedz123]

You don't have to look for 850 wheels, the 650G had 17" rims on the back. It was only the L bikes that had 16s.

You mentioned something about replacing the swingarm for a larger wheel/tire combo? Good luck with that. The left side of the swingarm houses the shaft. There is no practical way to make the swingarm bigger to accomodate a wider wheel/tire. You are pretty much limited to the 130 width, it would be best to just find the best-gripping tire in that size.

As mentioned, the Sport Demons are good. Avons are pretty decent, too. Bwringer was pleasantly surprised at the grip available with the Shinko Tour Master 230, but found they did not last long enough for him. The Avons lasted about twice as long and cost less than twice as much, for a lower cost per mile. Not sure where the Sport Demons fall in there.

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Just dabbling with the idea... The bike is so low powered I would't mind "being stuck" with the 130 anyway.

I'll look into Avons, I ran Shinko 009 (ZR) Ravens quite often on my other "New" school Japanese liter standards and had good results with them but with the girth of the Connie, it would eat them up in a couple thousand hard miles, always wearing the side of the tire out before the middle. I now run the Michelin PR4GT on the Concours, That's a decent tire, not the best in the turns I often have wheel spin while exiting under hard acceleration and slide during hard braking pre turn sometimes causing a slight slide in hard cornering, this is mostly Un-loaded. Loaded it grips well and the Connie is a wheelie machine out of the turns. Takes a while to heat up the tire. I do notice poor grip if the tire is cold but when heated they perform pretty well and I can get the rear of the bike lined up with pre turn sliding or powering out. They do last very long... I have over 6K miles on this rear now and it's got 40% tire left I'd say. Still very rounded but I ride in the turns hard. The front though... Is spent. Like I said, the sides of the tires are first to go on this bike but grabbed some good miles out of it.

Anyway I'll likely run something other then a Shinko on the GS.

Sport demons don't last as long as Avon RoadRiders, but are very sticky. Avon RoadRunners are a so so tire, nothing special, not even remotely as good as the RoadRiders.

Unlike on cars, I haven't seen much advantage to radials on bikes, they don't last any longer, not much if any stickier than GOOD bias ply tires. They are a little bit lighter if you consider that an advantage.

They have less rolling resistance, My VTX had better mileage with radials before I swapped it over to Bias. The ride is more plush with the bias and they do respond differently (less precise) in the turns, it might be because the VTX1800 is a HUGE bike and the radials are better built for that application (and it came out of the factory sporting radials) but I did notice a ride difference from the Radial to the Bias. I actually prefer the ride on the bias with my VTX, Gas took a few points but it seems to eat up bumps easier and cruise nicer. It was pretty jarring with the radials.

I run the Bridgestone Bt45's on my 1000G and like them, I tried a set of Shinko's and the bike handled like a truck, lost all of it's nimbleness. I highly recommend the BT45's ( and I ride the bike hard)

Thanks Jim! I would like to be able to eat up some hard turns with you folks at our next meet but with this IRC on it now I would have to back off after a few miles. The tire distorts and feels differently after it get's hot (maybe too hot). The tubes are part of the problem too... The rear though feels fine. I need to get the bike off the tubes and onto a tread with decent life but far better handling.

Thanks for the input guys!

[bwringer]

You're overthinking this.

Spoon on some good modern rubber in the correct stock sizes, finish sorting out the front end (you mentioned it still needs springs), and enjoy.

Pirelli Sport Demons are very well-regarded, but are short-lived.

I prefer the Avon AM26 RoadRiders, since they stick just as well, they last, they're V rated, and they work brilliantly in the wet. And they don't turn evil near the end -- they're very consistent as they wear. The Avons have a very light, nimble feel -- I believe they have a slightly "pointier" profile that suits olde heavy bikes quite well.

And yeah, install new valve stems and run them tubeless.

The handling limits of these machines are in the frame, not tire grip -- frame flex limits your antics long before modern bias-ply tires will give up. There's no need to futz with wider wheels/tires.

[mmattockx]

And yeah, install new valve stems and run them tubeless.

Where are you buying valve stems for conversion to tubeless?


Mark

[Sandy]

Like bwringer said, just stick on some decent rubber and if the rear feels good just setup the front. It'll most likely need a set of springs, proper fork oil for your riding style and maybe even a fork brace. I'm running Dunlop GT501s on my 1000, BT45s on the 750 and both bikes behave very well with the bias ply tires. I'm sure the Sport Demons or Avons and a few others would be every bit as good as what I'm running, just a matter of sizing, price and longevity. Going to the 17" rear would probably be a good thing for tire selection. Once setup properly if ridden hard any bobbles and wobbles is probably frame related and not really fixable.

[bwringer]

Where are you buying valve stems for conversion to tubeless?


Mark

The OP mentioned that his rims are marked "tubeless applicable" but someone installed tubes.

You need metal motorcycle valve stems -- the ones made for cars are too fat, and you can't use rubber snap-in stems either.

Here's an example of what you're looking for -- not sure where you'd get them in Canoodia:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/44692/i/bikemaster-chrome-tubeless-valve-stem

Note that these are the same diameter all the way down (about 8mm or 5/16") -- valve stems made for cars have bigger threads near the base.

[mmattockx]

The OP mentioned that his rims are marked "tubeless applicable" but someone installed tubes.

You need metal motorcycle valve stems -- the ones made for cars are too fat, and you can't use rubber snap-in stems either.

Here's an example of what you're looking for -- not sure where you'd get them in Canoodia:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/44692/i/bikemaster-chrome-tubeless-valve-stem

Note that these are the same diameter all the way down (about 8mm or 5/16") -- valve stems made for cars have bigger threads near the base.

Excellent, thanks. Canada's Motorcycle has the exact same item: https://www.canadasmotorcycle.ca/bik...em-151402.html


Mark

[Cipher]

Will it take Madura 1200 wheels? I know they fit on other shafties without too much trouble. No idea of the dimensions but cant imagine they put skinny ineffective tires on a bike that heavy and powerful.

[Steve]

Will it take Madura 1200 wheels? I know they fit on other shafties without too much trouble. No idea of the dimensions but cant imagine they put skinny ineffective tires on a bike that heavy and powerful.

Regardless of what WHEEL you put on there, the swingarm won't hold a tire that is much wider than 130. You might squeeze a 140 in there, but there is serious danger of rubbing the inside of the swingarm.

By the way, the Madura wheel is a 3.00 x 16. The stock 650L wheel is a 2.75 x 16.

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[Cipher]

I had no idea. Are the swing arms swappable too?

What is this ironic unseemly plying of a biased bias against bias btw? I have driven bikes with both ( though no high performance bikes ) The difference in fel was not that dramatic. I am by by no means a racer or anything like that though.

[Jedz123]

I have a matching Dunlop American coming in for the front with angled steel Valve stems.

Progressive Front Springs, fork brace and steering stabilizer is also coming in to attempt to strengthen the front end some. This little 650 handles worlds better then my 750 ever did... Or maybe I have just come so far as rider since then.

I'm past looking for a wider tire, it's not necessary. Although I officially have NO chicken strips left on the back.

I get this front tire and front end sorted I'll be a happy camper.

There is a difference in Bias to Radial tread, I can feel it but I don't think most would. Most of my other bikes ran ZR tread and there is a difference, especially in speeds of excess of 100mph or multiple hard turns at speed. Which is very easy to do on a modern liter (or bigger) sport or sport based bike.

But there is some good bias style tires out there now. I like this Dunlop American on the rear, I'll see how this combo stacks up. Tread is setup very much like a Radial and rated to 130mph, more then adequate. It's a dual compound too softer on the sides hard in the middle. It's also made in the USA, which is an added perk.

[Steve]

Are the swing arms swappable too?

Evidently you have no experience with GS shafties.

GS shafties, as well as virtually all other Japanese shafties, run the shaft through one side of the swingarm. The pivot area is different, too, as there is no long bolt on which the arm pivots. Since the shaft is going front-to-back through the pivot area, the long cross-bolt simply will not work. There are, instead, two threaded pivots with tapered roller bearings that hold the swingarm.

On a chain-drive bike, it is possible to use offset sprockets and/or a thinner chain to gain a bit of clearance, but the large tube that encloses the driveshaft is not nearly as flexible in its relocation.

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[Jedz123]

The OP mentioned that his rims are marked "tubeless applicable" but someone installed tubes.

You need metal motorcycle valve stems -- the ones made for cars are too fat, and you can't use rubber snap-in stems either.

Here's an example of what you're looking for -- not sure where you'd get them in Canoodia:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/44692/i/bikemaster-chrome-tubeless-valve-stem

Note that these are the same diameter all the way down (about 8mm or 5/16") -- valve stems made for cars have bigger threads near the base.

I have run metal car stems on motorcycles... Actually quite a few times on different models and years in example: 01 FZ1, 98 Bandit 1200, 83 GR650, 79 XS750, 82 CB450, 81CX500. I got all the stems from the car auto parts store... Fit right in and never leaked... FYI

[bwringer]

I have run metal car stems on motorcycles... Actually quite a few times on different models and years in example: 01 FZ1, 98 Bandit 1200, 83 GR650, 79 XS750, 82 CB450, 81CX500. I got all the stems from the car auto parts store... Fit right in and never leaked... FYI

Many bikes have bigger valve stem holes and some use rubber valve stems, so these can use the same valve stems as cars. And some folks have drilled out the valve stem holes in their GS wheels in order to use more easily available valve stems, although that doesn't seem like the best idea to me. See what you have and buy the appropriate valve stems. All the GS wheels I have encountered use the smaller diameter valve stems unless they've been drilled out.

NAPA used to carry motorcycle valve stems -- part # 90-426 (or NTH 90426), "Motorcycle Tubeless Clamp-In Tire Valve - TR430, 1.19" length, fits .327 rim hole". I bought a batch last year, and they told me they were discontinuing them, so I bought all they had in stock.

NAPA's web site shows that they're still available for special order, so they must have just meant they weren't going to stock them in the stores any more:

https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/search/?text=90-426

[mmattockx]

NAPA's web site shows that they're still available for special order, so they must have just meant they weren't going to stock them in the stores any more:
https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/search/?text=90-426

Just for the interest of the Canucks watching, I called my local NAPA (Airdrie, Alberta) and they still stock this part # but the cost is $13/each up here so it is an expensive option.


Mark

[John Park]

Just for the interest of the Canucks watching, I called my local NAPA (Airdrie, Alberta) and they still stock this part # but the cost is $13/each up here so it is an expensive option.


Mark

But that's only $10 in real money…..or 9 gallons of crude oil. Besides, a tube costs that or more now, so you've broken even.