Tire comparison & mix/match - Pirelli Sport Demon & Bridgestone BT45V Battlax

[Chuck78]

Time for some new tires....

I demand a sticky tire with excellent cornering grip. Pirelli Sport Demons and Bridgestone Battlax BT45V's (or BT45 if needing stock GS sizes) are the top 2 that I have arrived at. Aside from Avon race tires, I don't think I will find a better gripping tire for my twisty road purposes.


Ther Sport Demon seems to have a more rounded profile, & takes it hands down on best cornering bias ply for vintage bikes. Unfortunately reviews say the performance degrades with wear above 2000 miles and the BT45V is even or pulls ahead on cornering performance after that.


The BT45V rear in particular has more straight line traction and a more flat crown than the Pirelli, but the Pirelli as mentioned has the better lean-in early on. Both are excellent cornering tires. The Battlax is a dual compound with a harder "highway" rubber in the center of the rear specific tires, but user reviews still say it is soft and wears down very rapidly. Both of these are sub-5,000 mile tires on a 500lb bike (I am 155lbs + 487lb bike but ride somewhat hard). Also similar 5,000mi expectancy are my beloved Shinkos (I get about 4000mi max out of them with my riding).


Shinko and Pirelli only go up to a 140/70-18 rear, & although that is the best recommended fit on my 3.50x18 rim, the alternate fit of the 150/70 looks more appropriate on this bike and is still endorsed by the tire manufacturers. The 140 is lighter and will have better lean-in carachteristics as far my observations, but the 150 still corners well on a 3.50 rim.


Shinko doesn't offer a 110/80-18 either, so they are out for this size preference.




SOOOOOO.....




I'm looking at most likely running a BT45V 150/70-18 Battlax rear, and considered a Pirelli Sport Demon 110/80-18 front over the Bridgestone. The front BT45V tread is very different from the rear and from either Pirelli. The Pirelli is $12-ish cheaper than the front Battlax, & the Battlax is the shortest height 110/80-18 front that I have looked at, which makes me wonder about steering twitchiness...


The 140 rear would level out the bike slightly better to combat going from a 110/90-18 front down to a 110/80-18 front and stabilize the steering better.


Pirelli is known to have a fairly soft flexible carcass. I'm not certain about carcass stiffness on the BT45V Battlax.


what should I try out this time around? Mix & match okay? 150/70-18 rear as is aesthetically pleasing? Or 140/70-18 rear as is the best fit on the 3.50 wide rim?
110/80-18 front is the one thing I am dead set on.

[trevor]

I use sport demons and avon roadriders...I like both. The avons give a few more miles than the Demons but I find the Demons are stickier. I had Battlax and did not them at all. As you can imagine we ride in the rain here quite often...Battlax is the only tire I have had grip issues with. I have gone through 20+ tires in the last two seasons...so I believe I have a good gauge on these tires.
I will likely run Sport Demons all the time going forward even though I don't get the same mileage as the Avon's because now that I have 5 bikes to ride, the mileage gets spread out more now.

[Chuck78]

After getting some 4 year old Avon AM26 RoadRiders with only 100 miles on them (came on a set of Sun rim Buchanan's / GS1000 wire spoke wheels that I bought), & absolutely hating their compromised grip vs the Shinko 230 TourMaster & SR741 combo I had been running, I finally wore out the 150/70-18 rear after 1.5 seasons. I did endless burnouts on it the whole time just trying to get rid of it sooner, but either RoadRiders don't grip as people claim (more of a higher mileage tire that still corners "decently," or else they age very poorly. The front stepped out on my twice last season, so it's getting replaced as well despite still showing minimal wear. I may use it as a budget (i.e. free) rear (110/90-18) on another bike or a buddy's).

[Chuck78]

Trevor, the BT45V's get excellent performance shootout reviews on road and track tests both officially and independent rider feedback. I assume based on that, that you must be saying the BT45's don't grip well on damp/ dirty or cold pavement? Rain mostly? Rear and front both suffer similar complaints?

Please elaborate.

Also note that I was adding a poll as you replied. Please vote up to twice for your top 2 choices.


I have a good Shinko SR741 140/70-18 rear with very low miles on a spare set of wheels currently. I was thinking I'd run it on my GS425 489cc racer build until it came time to race, when I'd need a 3.00x18 rim (3" max for Formula 500 WERA class) & may as well slap on some race tires then.

anyhow, I think the Shinko will be almost as good on the rear as the Pirelli Sport Demon. I don't think I'd have any worries about mix&matching the 2 together.
My bargain source for tires, RockyMountainATVMC.com doesn't carry a 140/70-18 Sport Demon, and Chaparral wants $250 for the pair in my preferred sizes. Perhaps I can shop around for a 140 in a better price (Chaparral is $20 higher per tire on Pirelli vs Rocky Mtn ATV-MC)

[Sandy]

On my 1000 I've always run Dunlop GT501s and absolutely love them. Mileage hasn't been great but I am a little hard on tires. Wanted to run them on the 750 but proper sizing was an issue so I went with the BT45s in stock sizes and so far am really impressed with them, especially their cornering capabilities. They are rock solid as far as I want to push them which usually a little more than most. Probably start using them on the 1000 next time around. As far as mileage, don't know, don't care, doesn’t matter, but hopefully decent though. Supposedly they are a dual compound tire with softer rubber on the sides. I'll have to double check so don't quote me on that.

[Chuck78]

Yes, they are a dual compound tire, on the rear only. Do you have any comments on their wet weather performance? Seems as if Trevor has had some BT45 wet performance issues, but he is in the Pacific Northwest - the most critical test bed for wet weather performance & cooler weather performance

[Sandy]

Sorry, I can't comment on the wet weather performance. It doesn't rain where I ride, even on trips. Just BS luck. LOL.

[Nessism]

I've read reviews on the BT45 where they said cupping occurred on the front tire after accumulating mileage. Maybe ask Chef Bill. He might have been one of the members with such issues.

Regarding the Avon's, there was a member here that was at a vintage track/racing event recently and he took note of a large number of the competitors using Roadriders. Said they were the overwhelmingly most popular tire.

Sorry for the hearsay comments but thought they bear mentioning.

[Sandy]

I've read reviews on the BT45 where they said cupping occurred on the front tire after accumulating mileage. Maybe ask Chef Bill. He might have been one of the members with such issues.

Regarding the Avon's, there was a member here that was at a vintage track/racing event recently and he took note of a large number of the competitors using Roadriders. Said they were the overwhelmingly most popular tire.

Sorry for the hearsay comments but thought they bear mentioning.

Very popular vintage racing tire but only because they are available not only as a regular street tire but also as a special track compound. I think they may be the only manufacture doing this for the vintage racers. From past experience be very careful if you use track compound tires on the street as some track compound tires can be truly evil if not warmed up and some are alright.

http://www.avonmotorsport.com/historic-tyres-range/motorcycle

[Dogma]

...
Regarding the Avon's, there was a member here that was at a vintage track/racing event recently and he took note of a large number of the competitors using Roadriders. Said they were the overwhelmingly most popular tire.

...

They have more grip on a dry track than my 1000G has clearance. I didn't notice what other vintage bikes were using. Wear was nice and uniform, right up until I threw it down the track. They do not magically grip pavement that is going away from you because began sloping downhill. Other than that, the front held the full fury of the twin-pot brake upgrade without complaint. You can lock it up if you grab it too fast, though.

On street, the Avons have been quite popular around here. I don't push them on wet or dirty pavement though. Why die for that? I've heard the Sport Demons don't last half as well as the Road Riders, but I haven't tried them myself.

[limeex2]

I'm running a 110-18 sport demon front and Avon 130-18 on the rear. I could not get a 130 or a 140 sport demon rear to bead up properly and ended up with the Avon. I have(I believe) a 3.5" rim so a 140 will work but a 130 is recommended(lawyers) I will use the 130 on another bike and get a 140-18 Avon rear again as I used it for a track day and had zero issues. Avon makes vintage size race tires that are not D.O.T. approved and are VERY sticky and expensive. Try Denniskirk.com for cheap tires. Tough to beat prices.

[Gs1000g]

cant comment on the Bridgestones but I had some Pirelli Demons, stuck like glue but they did not last very long, front cupped really bad the rear had a section of baldness around 6" long. I have the Sporttec Klassic now and I am super happy with them, but they were pricey. I didnt want to have to buy new tires this season again. I dont mind paying for tires but the mounting and balancing gets expensive after a while

[Carter Turk]

Can't say I'm a fan of BT45's, at least in the 16'' dimension. I put a Sport Demon on the front to replace, and can't say I like it either.
The profiles a very different. My favorite was a Michelin Macadam 110/90/16 which they don't make anymore.
No complaints on the Sport Demon rear 140/80/17.
Still like the Dunlop 591 SP up front for a 19" 100/90/19, don't know if an 18'' is available or not. No one else here seems like this tire, but it has a nice triangular profile, with good contact patch, and great feedback. Wear isn't great, but the tire is sticky, even with the Harley moniker on the sidewall.
Didn't like the 501's either, at least in the front, felt like the tread cuts were too deep, making the front tire wander.
Tried a Michelin Sport Active in the rear and it worked pretty well, but the profile was rather steep at full lean.
I tried Avon's way back when (20+years ago) and they worked well, but have no current feedback on them now.
I'd consider trying Continentals, but lack the courage to change when the setup I have now works well.

[ALB80-850]

I have been looking at tires for a little while. Spent a couple hours the other night price shopping on several different web sites. Ive not mixed tires before so it will be a new expierence. Anyway, by customer review, tread life, shipping and cost I decided on the Avon roadrider 130-90v 17 rear@ $108 and the Pirelli Sports deamon 110-90v 16 front @ $95 with free shipping from the motorcycle super store. Im putting these on my 86 1150. Anyone see a grave error in my choice? In the past, on smaller bikes I ran Dunlop E3s, got crazy milage, not very sticky tho.

Andy

[Chuck78]

You know, I have considered that same tire model combination in my sizes, because the rears always flat so quickly in the center if you have to do much city or highway riding. In my opinion, the Road Rider is not superior gripping tire, but it does take a long time to kill it even when trying to do so! I can't tell you how many times I had to spin up the back tire, chirp the rear tire on every downshift, and skid with the rear brake occasionally, before I finally wore down the tire.

2 trips Ohio into West Virginia & riding for several days, one trip Ohio-Kentucky-Tennessee-North Carolina and back...
Then I did semi cross-country trip Ohio to Barber Vintage Festival in Alabama and back, and it was finally nearing time to replace it after that... sheesh! This is on 2.5 seasons, and on the rear only!

The front looked to show very little wear still even. I was blown away. I kept telling myself that my friend was right, it was probably because the tire was 3 years old when I got it, six years old now. But I am still very skeptical, as even when I got it with only 100 miles on it (from previous owner), on a set of wheels that I bought, its grip was lackluster in my opinion, and for the first time in a long time, I really had to watch pushing my GS750 hard. I still think maybe it had something to do with the age, or possibly with Road Riders and not aging gracefully, but who knows. Prior to that, I had ridden Shinko SR741 rears, and Shinko 230 Tour Master fronts and rears exclusively. The grip on those was phenomenal, but the rear tire life was very short for me. The rear looked fairly worn at just over 3,000 miles, and I would not have made it to 5000 on any of them on the rear. Due to the phenomenal grip, I still would run those though.

This is why I was looking into the Battlax BT45V's... I keep hoping for a dual compound rear that will last a while on straight pieces of slab, but offer great grip when leaning. Still waiting to hear Trevor give greater detail on what his grip complaints were on the BT45. I assume it let him down in the wet.
Those tires generally get very excellent reviews as far as traction and cornering ability. Like I said, he does live in the Pacific Northwest, it is always damp there, so I assume it was wet pavement traction, or possibly not coping well with grit on the road