tubeless tires

[GSDoubleDyl]

bwringer - French and Spanish translations ... this amuses me somehow

I get a kick out of them too. Also the interesting translations in instructions manuals sometimes that comes from foreign lands.

[bwringer]

My mechanic, a top notch builder/tuner/racer put it to me this way: my 1982 rims were not designed for them, did not originally come with them. I accepted his hint. I just didn't want another gremlin floating around my brain while doing the "buck."

I'm running the stock rims with Pirelli Speed Demons (and tubes).

Yep, it's up to the owner. I never advise whether or not to convert to tubeless, but if you do decide to do it, there is a right way and several wrong ways. If you're more comfortable with tubes, then by all means use tubes.

Motorcycle tires are all about confidence. If it's going to be on your mind for .0001 second, then don't convert to tubeless.

[rphillips]

It'd be interesting to know what came first. There was no need for tubeless motorcycle wheels if there were no tubeless motorcycle tires. There was neither a need for tubeless motorcycle tires when all the wheels were spoke type & couldn't hold air unless a tube was installed. Just guessing the cast whls. came first.

[bwringer]

Yep, cast wheels came first, but they still had tubes.

Honda's "Comstar" wheels arrived in 1977, and the 1978 CX500 was the first production motorcycle fitted with tubeless tires.

IIRC, Suzuki started using tubeless tires in about 1981 or maybe 1980? (please correct me); there were even a few models with one tube and one tubeless tire. Not sure of that date, but around in there. Tubes continued in a few models a little longer -- the 1982-83 GS1100E used tubes.

[rphillips]

I knew tubeless wheels & tires were here by "80". I Know because my brand new "80" GS1000G had tubeless on the front, as the wheel had to be replaced under warranty due to a tiny crack at the valve stem hole. Not sure about rear. Also remember the "1976" Kawasaki KZ900 LTD was the first factory bike I saw with cast wheels.

[Rob S.]

Yep, cast wheels came first, but they still had tubes.Tubes continued in a few models a little longer -- the 1982-83 GS1100E used tubes.

Correct on all counts. But I think the invention of cast wheels had different priorities than simply a route to tubeless. I think looks, and strength were the selling points of the new cast ('mag') wheels, then somebody realized that with the right cast wheels, tubes could be eliminated.

[mmattockx]

It'd be interesting to know what came first. There was no need for tubeless motorcycle wheels if there were no tubeless motorcycle tires.

There are significant safety benefits and performance improvements from tubeless wheels/tires. I expect those are what drove the development of both wheels and tires towards tubeless design.

Yep, cast wheels came first, but they still had tubes.
there were even a few models with one tube and one tubeless tire.

My 82 1100E has a rear wheel designated with the 'MT' marking and is marked 'Tubeless" while the front is not and does not have the internal shoulders intended for tubeless tire use.

I think looks, and strength were the selling points of the new cast ('mag') wheels

It has to be a styling issue because spoked rims are much, much tougher than cast ones. Off road bikes still use spokes for good reason.


Mark

[Rob S.]

It has to be a styling issue because spoked rims are much, much tougher than cast ones. Off road bikes still use spokes for good reason.

I'd call them more pliable. They bend, mags break.

[grcamna2]

Have any of you ever measured the weight difference between spoked or mag GS wheels ?

[rphillips]

The "78" GS1000C spoked wheels had alum. rims W/ steel spokes & weighed less than the cast "E" wheels, not a lot, but less. I'm thinking the GS750's & smaller had steel rims & spokes. I never weighed the wheels but just guessing from memory the alum spoked probably between 2lb. & 3lb. less than the cast.

[mmattockx]

Have any of you ever measured the weight difference between spoked or mag GS wheels ?

I haven't weighed GS spoked wheels, but I doubt there is much difference and the spoked ones might even be a touch lighter. Those old mag wheels were cast with old techniques that made them very heavy. Modern mag wheels are significantly lighter than spoked, but we aren't talking about those here.


Mark

[bwringer]

I'd call them more pliable. They bend, mags break.

I haven't weighed GS spoked wheels, but I doubt there is much difference and the spoked ones might even be a touch lighter. Those old mag wheels were cast with old techniques that made them very heavy. Modern mag wheels are significantly lighter than spoked, but we aren't talking about those here.


Mark

I don't think I've ever even heard of a cast GS wheel breaking, unless it was a serious sort of incident that did far more serious damage to the rider and the rest of the bike. Yeah, they're unbelievably heavy compared to the wheels on modern bikes, but they're also incredibly strong. Plus they're wearing high-profile tires.

Cast wheels on modern bikes are much lighter, but they are very fragile. Bent front wheels are quite common.

Many modern "adventure" bikes come with spoked wheels that are tubeless. You get the best of both worlds in these; some of the resilience of spokes without the disadvantages of tubes.

Of course, many dual-sport bikes still come with spoked wheels and tubes. I was highly disappointed to learn that the Yamaha Tenere 700 comes with tubes.


When you change and balance tires, it's also quite noticeable that modern wheels are far better balanced; it's fairly rare that the heavy spot isn't at the valve stem on a modern motorcycle wheel, but it's common on GS wheels. I put a little silver paint dot on my GS wheels to mark the true heavy spot.

[GSDoubleDyl]

So the used front wheel I ordered arrived. Compared to my existing wheel it appears identical except the sidewall stamp indicates TUBELESS:
N19 x MT 1.85 DOT TUBELESS TIRE APPLICABLE

There is a stem already on the wheel which indicates to me it last had a tubeless tire mounted.

I noted the date code on my original is 1178 and the used one I bought is 1080. I guess the 2 year difference saw wider spread of tubeless tires!

I'm going to proceed with my plan to mount the BT46 tire without tube and see how things go

1980 Wheel rim:

https://www.flickr.com

1980 Wheel Profile:

https://www.flickr.com

[SkyfangR]

so, looking for some new tires, it seems the 90/90-19 front tire i needs is fairly rare, and expensive.

is it possible to fit a 100/90-19 on the rim instead?

[GSDoubleDyl]

Hey SkyfangR:

Someone with direct knowledge of your machine will probably post but I can offer the following.

I did a quick Googly and it seems to indicate your model had stock tire size:
Front tire: 3.60in wide - 19in wheel (3.60-19)
Rear tire: 4.60 in wide - 16in wheel (4.60-16)

These would convert directly to metric size:
Front tire: 91.44mm wide x 100% tall - 19in wheel (so approx. 90/100-19)
Rear tire: 116.84mm wide x 100% tall - 16in wheel (so approx. 120/100-16)

On another thread I posted this:
"This link seems to make sense for fitting tires to rim size (check on your wheel rim for a listed size: probably 1.85-19 and 2.5-17?):
https://dropbears.com/motorcycles/utilities/tyrerim.htm "

The manufacturer website for the tire you choose may also list acceptable wheel width for the tire size they offer if you wanted to be sure.

Your wheel rim width is probably 1.85 (check on the rim sidewall) and so yes, I would expect a 100mm x 90% - 19in (100/90-19) tire will be just the ticket!