Earl's Brake Line Thread

[Nessism]

Any special consideration needed to eliminate rubbing on the frame etc? Add any extra securing points?

The line needs to be anchored in a couple of places to keep it from moving about. A piece of slit fuel hose or similar through the stock anchor points as a cushion works well.

[Sam 78 GS750]

The line needs to be anchored in a couple of places to keep it from moving about. A piece of slit fuel hose or similar through the stock anchor points as a cushion works well.

Fuel line's a great idea, much simpler than what I had in mind. I was thinking maybe a few layers of heat shrink tubing, or a plumbing washer of some sort to fill the space from the smaller diameter of the braided lines. I tend to overthink things like this sometimes.

[Sam 78 GS750]

Anybody have any pics of the rear done with a single braided line from MC to caliper?

[Allie]

Thanks for curating this info Ed! I just did a rear line for my bike, easy peasy! The brake was dragging pretty bad so I went over everything, I was suprised how little crud I got from the MC and especially the caliper. Changing the brake fluid often helps... The return port did indeed look obstructed, man is that thing tiny! I found a guitar string to work well for clearing it... I think I used a .012. I tried dissecting the old hose to see how bad it was with not much success. Maybe a hacksaw....

I did the front like 3 or so years ago, it's doing just fine.

[salty_monk]

In my signature... these days I use a Ninja 300 rear master cylinder. Too many rusted out stockers...

Use some automotive hose to pad it out for the stock clips. You can spiral cut it and then thread it onto the hose so it stays put...

[Chuck78]

Does anyone off the top of their head recall the banjo bolt thread sizes? I know different Japanese manufacturers use two different thread pitches, I believe Suzuki and Kawasaki vintage stuff were different thread pitches, but same diameter.

I am primarily interested in doing 2 full lines all the way from the master cylinder, using the popular 2-piston sliding caliper Tokico "twinpot brake mod" calipers and a Kasaki Ninja or Concours master cylinder with mirror mount (it's been so long I can't quite remember what application master I have been running for 8+ years, but it was a 2000's Kaw with threaded mirror mount).

Also, perhaps the info is in the older thread, but I recall reading about fittings for use with the twinpot brake calipers, perhaps they needed to be a different angle vs stock GS calipers?


I should add that I definitely prefer the double banjo bolt 2-line setup with full lines going from the master to each front caliper, as opposed to a junction block with 3 additional connection points (aka potential leaks) at the lower triple clamp.

I had the unfortunate experience of having a banjo bolt connection on a lower triple clamp mounted junction block come loose on me, and instantly...no brakes! Luckily it was at 25mph through a grassy camping field with no major hazards present, & I had tools & brake fluid available. The curving flex action of the lines under suspension travel is what caused the banjo bolt on one side to rotate and loosen 4 or 5 years after initial install.
A 2pc line + 1 double banjo bolt setup, either 2 full lines, or the double banjo stacked fitting on the right caliper & a 2nd hose looping from the R to the L caliper, is the more failsafe option in my humble opinion, ESPECIALLY after the leak experience which I mentioned.

[Nessism]

Does anyone off the top of their head recall the banjo bolt thread sizes?

Searched and found a post from bwinger where he says the banjo bolts are 10mm diameter X 1.0mm pitch

[bwringer]

Searched and found a post from bwinger where he says the banjo bolts are 10mm diameter X 1.0mm pitch

LOL, I was scrolling down, preparing my answer, and you beat me to it...


Yeah, the old Suzukis used M10X1.0 thread in the brake banjo bolts. Normal M10 bolts on our bikes use M10X1.25 threads. M10x1.00 is sometimes called "extra-fine"; M10x1.25 is "fine", and the standard pitch used on Asian machinery, and M10x1.50 is the standard pitch found on US and Euro stuff (can't we all just get along?).

However, other brands and modern Suzukis and aftermarket stuff often use M10X1.25 in the brake banjos, so if there's any doubt it's best to verify what you actually have in front of you before ordering stuff.

Or clean up and re-use your old banjo bolts if they're salvageable; the OEM banjos are very high quality, and there's a double in the junction block.

[Chuck78]

Where is everyone buying these Earl's Speedflex -3 lines and fittings from these days?

I was trying to search and find the original thread, but gave up after 45 minutes. I did however find some very negative feedback about customer service from ANPlumbing.com from a member here who had most of his order shipped out, but not items that were out of stock and backordered. Apparently they were looking into alternative sources to procure the missing pieces, but obviously should have contacted this customer/GSR member before shipping anything if parts of the DIY line kit were not currently available. Customer simply stated how he was not terribly pleased with their customer service, and thus received a barrage of nasty emails from the owner's son who runs the shop, eventually saying he was cancelling the rest of the order, and shutting down this customer's account! Nasty...

Anyhow, my wife wanted to just call up Spiegler USA 1hour from us in Dayton, Ohio, & order a custom set of Harley lines for her crashed '86 Hardley FXR dual disc conversion w/ 39mm Showa cartridge fork conversion + Suzuki SV650 calipers & EBC rotors...
They were likely to run us $245+ with 2 metric (double & single) banjo bolts and one 3/4-24 banjo bolt with brake light switch.

Ordered yesterday from AN Plumbing, got email to call them, they were out of the straight adjustable end for the master cylinder end until next week. They substituted a stainless steel version of it and are shipping out this morning.
The woman on the phone was very nice and very helpful, and like most others, I'd say this was a great transaction. Not sure what happened with that nasty exchange of emails with one GSR member who simply, justifiably stated that he was not pleased with their customer service when they did not notify him that half of his brake lines' parts were not in stock & backordered, after shipping what was in stock...
Hoping for the best in the future.

The website was not the best (has one major glitch when you click on the main menu main headers instead of the subheaders), but this was a lot better option than buying from one of the big speed shop online retailers, such as Summit or Jeg's, as all there is on the AN-Plumbing website are parts for hoses and brake lines, much more specialized and easier to navigate.

Will let you know how it goes.

[Chuck78]

Pardon me for asking another favor, but if anyone could point me towards the link of the original thread, I just wanted to read a few things that I recalled faintly from that, particularly about the twin pot break mod iirc the proper thread.

[Chuck78]

So... the package arrived from AN Plumbing yesterday! BUT... Much to my dismay, the line sold by the foot that we received was bare stainless braided sheathing, no clear protective outer wrap on the hose...
They showed line sold by the foot, and they showed line sold in 10 ft, 20ft etc lengths. The by-the-foot line was very slightly cheaper to get 10ft than it was to buy the 10ft pre-cut length. I wonder if that stuff was the line with the outer protective layer (protect the bike from getting hack-sawed through by the tough stainless braided wrap!), and the by-the-foot is just the cheaper economy stuff? There was no indication of either being one or the other on their website, and I must say that I'm a bit disappointed in this part at least. The fittings did not include the compression ferrules/rings aka "olives" either, so luckily I had ordered 5 of those separately.

I should note that the stuff I ordered 7 or 8 years ago, I got less than 10ft, and it has the outer clear protective wrap layer on it... I was expecting the same!

Any comments or feedback here? I may phone them here shortly.


It should also be noted that I ordered 2 different double banjo bolts, and was faced with the same problem I had years ago, there are different heights of banjo fittings! The Earl's -3 are 3/8" tall fittings, and the banjos are spaced for that. There are other, much nicer quality stainless banjo bolts which they sell, that are made for somewhere around 1/4" tall banjo fittings. These bolts are significantly nicer in quality, and have the bowled out heads of the bolts like KTM and so many other modern high performance bike manufacturers use in order to save weight. The flat top of the hex head bolts is not flat, it is bowled out in a concave fashion to remove material to save weight. AND they are stainless. I think I will look into this brand of fittings next time as well.
Goodridge stainless is the nicer stuff. .320" fitting height vs .425" - I believe that is including the two crush washers per fitting in the height.

Goodridge 0.320" tall:



Earl's 0.420" tall:


EDIT - I ordered the hose from the link on the same page as all of the fittings. It's as if they just threw in a quick misc. line section into the hose end fittings section, but did not include ALL LINE VARIETY OPTIONS there... DARNIT!!!!!!!
If you look separately in the section for Speed-Seal hose, you will find a link for the coated lines halfway down the page... DARNIT!!!!!!!
https://www.anplumbing.com/hose/ptfe...seal-hose.html $4.26/ft vs $3.02/ft

[Chuck78]

Apparently THIS is where I went wrong... I ordered based on the description and picture, which shows the taller height double banjo bolt spacing... BUT I got one that was the shorter .320" height spacing!!!!! DARNIT AN Plumbing for not making that clear! I ordered 2 (the other being the nickel plated Earl's brand in the taller height as advertised), so I have the one that I immediately need at least... I just will have to buy some heat shrink tubing to protect the bike from this uncoated line, or else spend $25 and rush ship some coated line from Summit Racing (both major USA Speed Shop mailorders, Sumit, and Jeg's, are based out of Ohio where I live, fortunately!)

[Nessism]

Bummer that you ordered the wrong hose. The PVC coated stuff is nice.

The ferrule, or olive, is inside the fitting. Try removing the nut. It should be there.

Regarding the banjo bolts, AN Plumbing sells a LOT of different types. Gotta be careful to order the right stuff. You can always reuse the stocker that came on your bike originally. That's what I typically do.

[Chuck78]

I thought I was being careful with the banjo ordering, as the photo showed what appeared to be what I needed, and the description did not say any dimensions that conflicted with the photo dimensions! The older Suzuki etc extra-fine m10-1.0 thread pitch double banjo is the stainless double banjo from Goodridge pictured, which appears to be the correct stack/fitting height for 3/8" tall (~10mm) Earl's fittings.

The hose thing - make certain you don't order hose from the minimal selection they show on the fittings page, be sure to go to the full PTFE Speed Seal hose page to find the coated stuff...
Initially I had the opinion that their website had some glitches/crutical omissions, and could use some improvements, but now I have found out the hard way that there are more errors than meets the eye! If the hose listing had stated that it was uncoated, that would have threw a necessary big red flag immediately for me. Here I was looking back to see if they showed any smoked or black jacket options, & looked again to see they only have what appeared to be clear...clear air that is, as there was no sheathing on the hose product I was viewing that was hose listed in the fittings section!!!! DARNIT!!!!!

[Nessism]

If I were you I'd just order some more hose. Save that other stuff for future projects, maybe dirt bikes.
Oh, and for what it's worth, once you've built a set of these lines and learn the ins and outs you will realize that building with the cheaper non adjustable hose ends work just fine. As mentioned earlier in the thread, mark them and stop tightening about 1/2 turn from where the nut bottoms out. The ferrule will be fully seated long before this point so don't worry. After both hose ends are installed then clock the hose ends as needed to fit the bike by using that last 1/2 turn as needed.

Good luck