1 relay v 2 relay?

[kng254]

I currently have the 1 relay mod setup on my 1000g.
I was wondering is the 2 relay setup better than the 1 or is it pretty much the same.
Thanks

 

[Nessism]

What is the two relay mod?

 

[Graham]

What is the two relay mod?

What is a one relay mod?:-s

 

[Steve]

What has been modded with your one relay? :-k

What else would you like to have modded with a relay?

.

 

[Nessism]

What is a one relay mod?:-s

Coil relay mod? http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/coil_relay_mod.html

 

[posplayr]

maybe be the coil relay mod and the starter relay mod;

or maybe the starter relay mod and the horn relay mod,

or maybe the coil relay mod and the Honda relay mod

or maybe .......

 

[kng254]

Coil relay
I checked out the link and that's the setup I have.
I ask because I thought I saw a setup on here with a relay for each coil and one for both coils going to one relay.
I guess it doesn't matter as long as I have right.

 

[koolaid_kid]

It only takes one, they don't pull that much current.

 

[posplayr]

Coil relay
I checked out the link and that's the setup I have.
I ask because I thought I saw a setup on here with a relay for each coil and one for both coils going to one relay.
I guess it doesn't matter as long as I have right.

either coil will pull about 4 amps (12V/3Ohm)=4 amps and the typical relay will carry 30-50 amps. One relay is more than enough.

 

[bonanzadave]

maybe be the coil relay mod and the starter relay mod;

or maybe the starter relay mod and the horn relay mod,

or maybe the coil relay mod and the Honda relay mod

or maybe .......

Use a 4 pole relay !

http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm

and why have you electro-gurus never told us about quenching diodes and EMF ?

 

[850GT_Rider]

Pretty good tutorial there.

The diodes are always a good idea and can't hurt. In answer to your question, though, the tutorial says this:

Anytime that a relay coil is driven by a circuit that is not specifically designed to drive a relay, you should use a quenching/suppression diode connected in parallel with the relay coil.

In the case of our bikes, the switches and circuits we're using (ignition, start button, headlights, horn, etc) ARE somewhat designed to handle the make-and-break full-current loads. They should handle the coil-only current ok, even the reverse EMF caused by the collapsing field of the coil.

But it's a marginal design for the full-current loads, made worse by deterioration over the years. So we add the relays, and therefore ask the switches and wiring to only carry the much lighter current loads of the coils.

The diodes aren't really needed, but ain't a bad idea.

 

[posplayr]

Pretty good tutorial there.

The diodes are always a good idea and can't hurt. In answer to your question, though, the tutorial says this:



In the case of our bikes, the switches and circuits we're using (ignition, start button, headlights, horn, etc) ARE somewhat designed to handle the make-and-break full-current loads. They should handle the coil-only current ok, even the reverse EMF caused by the collapsing field of the coil.

But it's a marginal design for the full-current loads, made worse by deterioration over the years. So we add the relays, and therefore ask the switches and wiring to only carry the much lighter current loads of the coils.

The diodes aren't really needed, but ain't a bad idea.

With the addition of any newer electronic accessories, I would not chance it. I would opt for the suppression diodes to avoid mysterious failures of anything you might put into the system later.

 

[Graham]

Coil relay mod? http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/coil_relay_mod.html

Thanks, I didn?t see the reason for a relay. Most ignition systems use resistor wires, resistors or ballast resistors as voltage reducers for coils anyway. I heard they are there to keep the points from burning. Most CDI use internal resistors for voltage control. Most ignition systems only bypass the voltage reducing resistors when starting. I am not sure if any GS has a resistor in the ignition system. The wiring diagram on some the GS1000 and my 83 GS1100 show a power wire in the ignition system with a red tube. Could this be a resistor wire or does the red tube cover a resistor? Has anyone check the Ohms on this wire or a new one? Just something to think about when you put in a ?coil relay mod?.

No relay mod for me, I don?t want my coils or ignitor going out early.

 

[posplayr]

Thanks, I didn?t see the reason for a relay. Most ignition systems use resistor wires, resistors or ballast resistors as voltage reducers for coils anyway. I heard they are there to keep the points from burning. Most CDI use internal resistors for voltage control. Most ignition systems only bypass the voltage reducing resistors when starting. I am not sure if any GS has a resistor in the ignition system. The wiring diagram on some the GS1000 and my 83 GS1100 show a power wire in the ignition system with a red tube. Could this be a resistor wire or does the red tube cover a resistor? Has anyone check the Ohms on this wire or a new one? Just something to think about when you put in a ?coil relay mod?.

No relay mod for me, I don?t want my coils or ignitor going out early.

If the voltage to your coils drops to about 10.5 V it will cause hard starts and it goes down hill from there. Burning coils up is not generally an issue. Poor supply to coils is.

 

[Graham]

If the voltage to your coils drops to about 10.5 V it will cause hard starts and it goes down hill from there. Burning coils up is not generally an issue. Poor supply to coils is.

If there I had a starting issue, I would use the relay mod off the starter button. That would give me 12v when the starter turns and 10.5v when running. I don?t think the wiring from battery to key switch to coils degrade to the point they become resistors. I have not tested the wiring new on a GS before but I have seen this before new on other motorcycles, ATVs, cars, and outboards. I?m not saying that coil power is 10.5v; I?m saying it could have been 10.5v from day one and that it maybe for a reason. Do you know where you are losing voltage and why? Maybe at the fuse, key switch, kill switch or at the end of the o/w wire with the red tube on it? I believe this o/w with red tube (on the wiring diagrams) is a resistor wire to reduce voltage. I haven?t had time to test this out yet but I will. My GS1100 shows it between the fuse and the kill switch. Some GS1000 with points show o/w wire with a red tube before the key switch plug.

 

[posplayr]

If there I had a starting issue, I would use the relay mod off the starter button. That would give me 12v when the starter turns and 10.5v when running. I don?t think the wiring from battery to key switch to coils degrade to the point they become resistors. I have not tested the wiring new on a GS before but I have seen this before new on other motorcycles, ATVs, cars, and outboards. I?m not saying that coil power is 10.5v; I?m saying it could have been 10.5v from day one and that it maybe for a reason. Do you know where you are losing voltage and why? Maybe at the fuse, key switch, kill switch or at the end of the o/w wire with the red tube on it? I believe this o/w with red tube (on the wiring diagrams) is a resistor wire to reduce voltage. I haven?t had time to test this out yet but I will. My GS1100 shows it between the fuse and the kill switch. Some GS1000 with points show o/w wire with a red tube before the key switch plug.

When I did my GS1100ED rebuild I replaced everything electrical with OEM or NEW after market(OE harness, OE left and OE right hand controls, Electro sport Stator and R/R.) Within about a year I started having hard start problems to the point it required Starter fluid to start at all. I checked the voltage and it was 10.5V and so rather than fight it went coil relay mod to minimize connections and switches. No issue since.

With the coil relay mod and about 1 year later still starts nearly instantly.

With a 3 ohms coil it only takes about 0.7 ohms resistance to drop your 12.8 volts down to 10.5V at the coils. That is not a Hell of alot of resistance considering travelling through the fuse box twice and going through two switches forgetting about all the wire and connections back and forth 3 times in between.

 

[Graham]

When I did my GS1100ED rebuild I replaced everything electrical with OEM or NEW after market(OE harness, OE left and OE right hand controls, Electro sport Stator and R/R.) Within about a year I started having hard start problems to the point it required Starter fluid to start at all. I checked the voltage and it was 10.5V and so rather than fight it went coil relay mod to minimize connections and switches. No issue since.

With the coil relay mod and about 1 year later still starts nearly instantly.

With a 3 ohms coil it only takes about 0.7 ohms resistance to drop your 12.8 volts down to 10.5V at the coils. That is not a Hell of alot of resistance considering travelling through the fuse box twice and going through two switches forgetting about all the wire and connections back and forth 3 times in between.

I did say the relay mod did work. I?m saying there maybe a reason Suzuki didn?t do it to start with. That is a nice GS1100ED you got there. Mine is an old 1100GL with 27-year-old coils and wiring, and it starts every time too (just the other side of the coin). How long (miles) has anyone used the relay mod before replacing parts in their ignition system? Just food for thought.

 

[posplayr]

I did say the relay mod did work. I’m saying there maybe a reason Suzuki didn’t do it to start with. That is a nice GS1100ED you got there. Mine is an old 1100GL with 27-year-old coils and wiring, and it starts every time too (just the other side of the coin).

I'll admit I preemptively changed my igniton to coil relay mod after my 1166 kit install. Chef1366 also had an 1166 and chased his tail thinking he had carb/jetting problems on his when he finally solved it doing a coil relay mod. So it is not just start up it is also at high RPM.

How long (miles) has anyone used the relay mod before replacing parts in their ignition system? Just food for thought.

The coil relay mod has a pretty long history and was introduced here at GSR about 2 years ago from a Kawi guy I think. I did not think much of it at the time either, but when faced with the above I converted.

Note we are talking about retaining a full 12V not raising the voltage to 24V. I cant imagine that the Suzuki engineers sized the coils to take into account the degradation in voltage due to corrosion and if you put a fresh harness in the coils will burn up.

Thanks on the complements, I'm getting closer to finishing. Finishing off on jetting at the moment. Maybe next weekend to rejet and confirm with the Innovate O2 sensor.

 

[Graham]

posplayr

I?m going the other way on my GL, more of a commuter. I do like the relay mod off the starter button (like fords in the 60s). I don?t need a 27-year-old ignition taking 14v-15.5v at 5 or 6 thousand RPM, and I don?t need 12,000 rpm (did enough of that in my teens). I just need an old bike that runs day after day. I still think it is resistor wire and not degradation in voltage due to corrosion. I?ll test my bike as soon as I can.