16valve adjusters coming loose

[dorkburger]

That plug looks sketchy, but was put there to force oil up thru the added cooler. 1150 oil filter covers have that space restricted, but not completely.

 

[Rob S.]

When I put the oil cooler on my bike, I was told I could either modify the 1100 filter cover or get an 1150 cover. I got a NOS 1150 cover; looks like your original cover was modified.

 

[CincinnatiKid]

Great info. Just went looking for a 1150 cover and found this site that puts it all into pretty good context.
https://www.theflyingbanana.com/oil-

For $125, I’ll keep my 1100 filter cover. I was thinking that I’d put a piece of hard plastic sheet over the front of the cooler while the winter is around this year in Chicago, but maybe a thermostat could be good also. I think riding/commuting in the Chicago winter last year with the cooler helped bring my top end to its knees. I wonder if the engine oil ever got up to temperature in those 4 coldest months....

:stung:

 

[dorkburger]

I think RapidRay had several 1150 covers for sale on a FB page recently.

 

[Rob S.]

I was thinking that I?d put a piece of hard plastic sheet over the front of the cooler while the winter is around

I use a piece of corrugated cardboard painted black and two extra-long, heavy-duty twist ties.

 

[CincinnatiKid]

One of my oil filter studs looks like it?s set back outside from the engine a 1/4? or so. Didn?t feel loose at all, even when trying to snug it with a double jam nut. Is this typical? Pic available if needed.

 

[CincinnatiKid]

so i got 2 new o-rings for the inside of the head bolts. the old ones were brittle and no surprise the one wasn't sealing. replaced with OEM. new oil filter installed, new o-ring there. leaks seem to be taken care of, initially. we'll see how it holds up with heat and use.

confirmed the valve adjustment <again>, did some nit-picky adjustments, but everything was between .003 and .005" already.

i didn't want to remove camshafts in order to remove the follower pivot shaft, but i did back out the adjusters all the way to be able to peek at the followers on cylinder 1, and they seemed unremarkable as far as abnormal wear.

the tapping persists. i made a pair of videos to demonstrate the sound.

1) this video shows the engine idling, and i move the camera around the engine to show how the sound is localized to the cylinder one top end, near the valve train.

2) the second video is showing how the tapping responds to throttle. some throttle blips, and some slow roll-ons.

i know it's a vague assumption, but it sounds like maybe a spring is "lazy" somewhere in the valve train???? not even sure what i mean by that.

 

[Gorminrider]

i know it's a vague assumption, but it sounds like maybe a spring is "lazy" somewhere in the valve train???? not even sure what i mean by that.

maybe a sticky valve might give that sound? ie: delayed release so it taps the cam instead of "following" it perfectly
a link
https://itstillruns.com/sticking-valve-noise-engine-7754322.html

 

[storm 64]

Sounds like a exhaust leak. Or maybe a spark plug backed out...

 

[Guest]

That just doesn't sound like a tappet, to loud. Anytime I had a loose one (usually from when I adjust the valves, I always get a ticker) it was very faint. I've never had one ever come loose in 35 years, though I have had to replace a screw adjuster and the jam nut now and then. They become tight in the threads and won't adjust, just pop in a new one and go on.

 

[CincinnatiKid]

Checked spark plugs, all is good there. Everything has spark, all plugs are seated about a 1/2 turn past just seated.

bought new exhaust gaskets, installed them onto cylinders 1 and 2 only today, due to time and the fact that the tapping sounds like it’s coming from the bike’s left side. Cylinder 2 looked like it was maybe an exhaust leak culprit. Where the flange seats to the gasket, there was a small band of carbon that maybe said it wasn’t sealing nice...NE side of the flange in the pic. I chased the threads in the head with a tap to make sure I’m not bottoming out there or anything. Reassembled and torqued the flange to the head and slipped the headers onto the flange, and started the bike up.

still tapping just the same.

kinda frustrating.

ive been riding my KTM to work daily since the GS has been in limbo, but I’m thinking about just putting some miles on the GS and see if the tap/tick changes at all.

 

[Guest]

is it possible one of the spigots or pipes is out of round or something, causing an exhaust leak? I have no familiarity with the spring-retained pipes, i just know that when mine has leaked it has made a sound real similar.

 

[GregT]

Try moving the pipes around on their mounts while the engine's idling. I was once summoned urgently to listen to an engine I'd built - "it's making a noise".
My business partner leaned over the bike and the noise stopped....he was leaning on the muffler which stopped the pipe rattling against the frame.

If you had a early FZR1000 or an early Honda V4, I'd suggest a con-rod small end had gone oval, they were known for that. But the GS's don't do that...

 

[CincinnatiKid]

Try moving the pipes around on their mounts while the engine's idling. I was once summoned urgently to listen to an engine I'd built - "it's making a noise".
My business partner leaned over the bike and the noise stopped....he was leaning on the muffler which stopped the pipe rattling against the frame.

If you had a early FZR1000 or an early Honda V4, I'd suggest a con-rod small end had gone oval, they were known for that. But the GS's don't do that...

I?m in no position to rule anything out @ this point, but the way the sound tracks the RPMs makes me think the source is from inside the engine.

I?m trying to think outside the box here... is there a safe way to ?disable? the valves for a cylinder? Either running the adjusters wayyy in to obviously kill compression but also to remove the potential sound source of valve/seat contact or valve/rocker. Just as a diagnostic measure, to listen to the engine for a minute or so. Would it be better or worse to actually remove the adjusters and leave the valves closed?

what about doing it for only half of the valves per cylinder per test? Just one intake and exhaust? Safer? Would it matter?

a friend who own a bike shop in cincinnati said not to do it, but offered no description of what might be problematic.

i don?t want to kill my engine but this lingering issue has me questioning if I even know the 4 strokes of an engine...!

 

[TeamDar]

Even if you remove the adjustment screws, the rockers themselves will still open the valve part way. However the noise will increase because the cams will be slamming into the rockers.

 

[GregT]

I?m in no position to rule anything out @ this point, but the way the sound tracks the RPMs makes me think the source is from inside the engine.

I?m trying to think outside the box here... is there a safe way to ?disable? the valves for a cylinder? Either running the adjusters wayyy in to obviously kill compression but also to remove the potential sound source of valve/seat contact or valve/rocker. Just as a diagnostic measure, to listen to the engine for a minute or so. Would it be better or worse to actually remove the adjusters and leave the valves closed?

what about doing it for only half of the valves per cylinder per test? Just one intake and exhaust? Safer? Would it matter?

a friend who own a bike shop in cincinnati said not to do it, but offered no description of what might be problematic.

i don?t want to kill my engine but this lingering issue has me questioning if I even know the 4 strokes of an engine...!

Disabling one cylider isn't easy. Yes, you could pull the rockers completely. But to get the engine to run you need the spark for that cylinder to go to earth to complete the loop. Leaving the plug in means a lot of compression drag. Taking it out means you still have to earth the plug.

I'd still be looking at the rockers. Yes, you've looked at the rubbing surfaces - but how are the clearances to the shafts they run on ? Wear here will undoubtedly make a noise. Turn the engine till a valve is closed and try twisting the rocker. There should be very little play if any at all.

 

[CincinnatiKid]

Well I brought it to a very highly capable Indy speed shop (Fornarelli motorsports, Elgin IL) yesterday morning. They called today and said that the camshafts and the followers need replaced, and that they have run through the hardening on the surfaces. I would like to see the shop take a short video demonstrating the failure point and such, maybe in the future.

Hard to accept that the cams and the followers both/all need to be replaced, perhaps it’s just a point of hygiene that if replacing some, replace all.

It is going to be expensive. Found some sources for new parts, probably close to 1k in parts new.

Anyone sitting on some and willing to make a deal?
saw some camshafts on eBay for like 50-ish shipped, and some for about 200 shipped. Hard to gamble on some as-is pictures only listings like that.

 

[Rob S.]

Been following your thread since the start. Please remind us of the model by putting it in your signature. (1981 GS1100E)

Thanks.

 

[Gorminrider]

aha. Dorkburger and GregT had it right. I was afraid so when they posted-it made a lot of sense.

Hard to accept that the cams and the followers both/all need to be replaced,

Yeah, but I guess it's like a chain+sprocket..just replacing the chain won't last if the sprocket is worn.

 

[GregT]

Megacycle used to offer buildup and refacing service for the followers, I'm sure other companies do too. Cheaper than new.
The cams aren't hardened as such. They're chill cast iron which develops a "skin" of hard material.
If this is worn through, again they can be built up and reground.

You do have options other than new OE.