1977 gs 750, track days

[npntransistor]

hi all, was looking at taking my gs to track days at the local track, im planning on doing a mild rebuild this winter ( paint, give the engine a good going over, and new intake / exhaust)

First q, for the air filter, K&N stock replacement or K&N pods? is there that much more of a gain with the pods?

second, i was looking at macs 4 into 2 part number 003-0308 g is how much better does this flow over stock? and what air filter would match best with it?

im going for closest to stock with minor tune ups. advice on a jet kit would be also good. im kinda lost and looking for direction.



thanks!:idea:

 

[salty_monk]

Mac's are reported to flow no better than stock. You want K&N pods, 4:1 from V&H, Kerker or simlar & a Dynojet kit.

Presumably they do one for the 750, not 100% offhand.

In my experience it makes a big enough difference to notice, especially up the rev range which is where you should be on track....

Dan

 

[bwringer]

Got suspension? That'll make a much bigger difference on the track than farting around with the carbs/exhaust.

 

[Guest]

Have you ever been to a track day? Do you have experience at all?

 

[80GS1000]

Are you thinking drag strip or road course? What track do you have in mind? If it's road course, I'd highly suggest you buy an older GSXR 600/R6/CBR600RR trackbike/racebike from a racer because it'll already have track plastics, suspension, and motor work done. If you look around it won't cost more than $2-3k, and it's easily REPLACEABLE. Your GS750 is not. If you're pushing it at all on the track, it's a matter of when, not if, you wad it up.

The modern 600s are up 20-40 HP on your 750 and have all the latest brakes, suspension and handling to be the best tool for the job on the racetrack. Your 750 is a fine streetbike but will be a sitting duck out on the track.

If it's drag racing, disregard all the above, put some good suspension/brakes/tires on the 750, hop up the motor, and have fun.

 

[76FJ55]

I say Take the GS to the track. Just keep in mind that it isn't a GSXR, CBR, or... Isn't the purpose of track days to go out and have fun and learn what you can in the process. I understand it will not be competative with todays bikes, but het back in the day it would have been just as competative on the track as any other 70's street bike. He said track days not full on race the old bike.

If the bike is needing a little work and you want a little more out of it, I say go for the pods, pipe and jet kit. They will serve you on the road just as well as the track. Ride the bike, have fun and be safe. know your limits and the bikes. Then in the future if you decide you want to make more out of the track than what you can with the GS, pick up a dedicated track bike.

 

[gbw]

Mr npntransitor,

Like you, I have a 77 GS750. When purchased it had the stock exhaust and K&N pods. I have since gone back to the stock airbox and filter in an attempt to improve gas mileage and simplify jetting.

My understanding is that pods alone do not accomplish much. To really make a difference you need to combine them with a more free flowing exhaust.

My experience to date with the stock airbox and exhaust is that the bike is still a lot of fun to ride. I don't notice much, if any, difference in performance. But, I do miss that nice snort the old K&Ns give when you open up the throttle

I plan to take my 77 GS750 to the ARC next year followed the next day by a track day. My goal is to learn to corner better on MY bike. I have no intention of racing my bike on a track, but I understand that there is no better way to improve your cornering skills than participating in track days. And why would I want to improve my cornering skills on any bike other than the one I ride everyday?

Good luck and keep us posted on your mods and riding.

 

[willycrash]

my name is willycrash, and i'm a crasher

my name is willycrash, and i'm a crasher

heh. never taken a 70's era bike to a road race track, but I have taken more recent, and sometimes really inapropriate equipment-took my v strom a couple months ago. I think suspension and tires would be a better place to start prepwise, but I would add that you might need to safety wire the bike as well. wire the oil fill cap and drain bolt at a minimum, and quite possibly the brake lines as well, depending on the regs of the track or track day organization you use-expect extra scrutiny if you show up on a older( 30 years) bike, since your bike puking oil on their track will not go over well. You probably need to tape up or remove the lights and signals ect-definetyly check the rules. One problem I have had with older bikes is, if you really pound the brakes, as I tend to do on the track, they sometimes go away on you without a ton of warning, espcially if your brake fluid is old or contaminated. it's a lot to think about. can't say what the best thing to do is, but a used ninja 250 might be a better bet for a 1st track bike. or not. sort of depends on whether youre a complete extrovert or not, and the track as well. the 250 wouldnt be so fun at willow springs/road america, probably pretty fun at blackhawk farms/gingerman...also, i had a 78 GS550 that had low miles and looked quite spiffy. people told me it would take anything I could dish out, but one 60 mile ride trying to keep up with with guys on modern 1000 cc sport twins and i blew it up.

Personally, i broke some bones at my 1st track day (sv650)and I doubt riding a different bike would have helped because i'm sort of a maniac. maybe using a stock gs750 would have slowed me down as it shook and bounced its way around the track, but I doubt it. track riding is super fun but its pretty natural to pick up quite a bit of speed over the course of a day-a slow track pace often being faster than you have ever gone on the street, and i'm pretty sure the old GS would begin to show it's evil side before too long, or pop. unless you are quite able to control yourself...and what fun would that be?

 

[willycrash]

ps, if you get rid of the airbox and go with pods, you need a catch can for the crank vent hose so it doesnt spew oil on your rear wheel or the track. not a big deal; i prefer redbull cans, but some like hormel chili..a k&n crank breather filter might be ok as well.

pps, before i ever went to the track i spent a little too much time at the "thumper list" reading about things I would "need", while ignoring quite a lot of good advice...about just getting out there and doing it. instead, my 1st track bike project was a honda ascott into which I dropped a lot of money on things I didn't strictly need, like a white brothers race motor, big carb, clip ons, a NT650 front end, a pipe and shocks and race bodywork, ect. after engineering myself into a corner, it's still sitting in my garage 10 years later...unrun and unwanted, so there is that...

 

[Old Colt]

As mentioned above, Brakes. I have run these 70s vintage bikes on the track, but that was a long time ago when they were new.
I had about 20 minutes of front brake available due to caliper flex. This did not matter if we were running a sprint race or a 4 hour enduro, it was 20 minutes of usable brakes.

 

[slow_heavy_750]

If you do the V&H 4-1, watch out for cornering clearance on right hand corners. On my bike i tend to drag it quite a bit...which is why I now have booger welds patching up the hole it created

 

[Baatfam]

I hate these track day threads....

'cause I start thinkin' and lookin' at ebay and findin' cheap track/race bikes....
Ready to go stuff, not so expensive and I have a trailer and I have leathers and gear and I've always wanted to race a road bike and, and, and, and...

Ahhhh....:-k

And I'm 52 and don't bounce like I use to....

Arrgghh

 

[Old Colt]

And I'm 52 and don't bounce like I use to...

A few years ago I was driving at Watkins Glen and met up with a guy I used to road race bikes with 25+ years ago. he kept up with bikes till about 5 years before this meeting. I told him I have a strong desire to get my knee down again and was looking into going into vintage racing.
He looked at me and said, "Charlie, we are round now, you don't tumble like you used to". I have been thinking about that ever since.
I recently took a tumble off my bicycle, dang that hurt, and I was only going 18.

 

[Mark M]

And I'm 52 and don't bounce like I use to...

It is in your control, you know. I am about to turn 40 and I took up MX racing this year after a couple of summers of riding at the local MX track. Also did my first two track days this last summer on my 06 GSXR1K. Don't let age be your excuse, just wear gear and stay away from the crazy 18 year olds.


Mark

 

[triffecpa]

I roadrace vintage bikes regularly. I'll be 50 next June. We might be round, but that means that we roll more than the skinny guys...

Get out there and give it a try. All that a vintage bikes needs for fun at a trackday is decent tires (I've used Pirelli Sport Demons on trackday bikes), 20wt oil in the forks, tapered steering head bearings and some decent shocks (I've used the Forsa/Midi ones off Ebay for less than $100 a set).

If anyone is in the Albuquerque area, we run monthly trackdays and monthly races from April thru Oct.

I've almost always got a spare bike that I'm happy to loan out for races or trackdays.

The key is to ride within your safety zone. Scaring myself silly isn't as much fun as it used to be and I make sure to not let any of that Red Mist get caught inside my helmet.

Tracy

 

[moderntechnician]

Let me premise this by saying I am not trying to act know-it-all or superior to anyone. So please don?t take anything the wrong way!

Are you talking about Track Days at the new track (Sandia) or a track like A.S.R. (Arroyo) or the old Bottomless Lakes track? (I?m betting Sandia.) Anyway I had heard it was only an oval (or a couple of ovals...) Pleased to hear that it?s got a twisty!!!!!!!

The key with racing motorcycles was balancing all of your monkeys. Stresses on the bike and your body were phenomenal, the guy who won the race was the one that broke late and rode as out of control as he could, understood his machine (a DNF doesn?t garner you anything) and made no mistakes.

A 4 cylinder Suzuki GS or Kawasaki KZ should hold up to anything you give it, but I wouldn?t take my street bike unless I was really prepared for some heartache.

I?d have to say I am pleased to hear that the vintage class halts at 1980. It wouldn?t be the same if GSXRs, Ninjas and Interceptors ruled the roost. Of course I say that with a stripped GSXR sitting behind the little house! (By the way what about the two strokes?)

Back when I raced you hung out at the Dunlop trailer or the factory boys after a race to get slicks for free. When it rained you cut your slicks by hand. You?d ride with a tranny that was going out or cracked rear sets. You?d bend your Bassani for clearance, a Vance and Hines didn?t do a thing (?xcept drop weight) unless you modified the intake or better yet took advantage of better lift and duration. Smoothbores took a stutter at the heavy cross winds on a South Western track. And Bates Leathers weren?t pretty! You spent a ton of time safety wiring the thing up or tearing down a box stock after a race to prove you didn?t have any disallowed mods. You were REAL nice to the track stewards and organizers. And you knew in your gut when a guy had you outclassed and no matter where you were, you took the inside posture and let him pass. Did I mention you occasionally dined on hay? You didn?t sleep on a feather bed, but your engine did. You?d buy, trade, beg track time like it was gold (it was.) Foot pegs got really warm and power slides tore up the NFGs. Your air cooled bike was a totally different beast at the end of a main than she was at the beginning. You?d listen patiently as some kid would relate how he WOULD race but his two stroke needed a good carb? cleaning. Going to work on Monday for a fellow RD racer who was a new father and had crashed that weekend. Laguna Seca on a light summer rain, enough said. And the pure joy when you realized if you rolled on enough power the bike had a tendency straighten itself up and when in a death wobble you could let go of the bars and the bike knew what to do! (Randy Mamola did it the hard way.)

I retired from racing because the wife insisted, not because it was the end of the road.

I would encourage others to try it out, is Keith Code still in the Super Bike School business? (Was it Willow Springs that he owned when he was on pipe?) Tha was so long ago!

I am ashamed to say that I do not know any of the current crop of racers; my day had John Surtees, Mike Baldwin, Eddie Lawson, Randy Mamola, Jimmy Adamo, the King and of course Mike the Bike! Speaking of Mike Hailwood why doesn?t any one mention the Dunstall/Suzuki GS1000 superbike??? (http://www.woodgate.org/dunstall/images/gs1000cs.jpg) You?d think this group would have been all over that one!

Hey does anyone remember the guy that used to race at P.I.R. with the Eagle Globe and Anchor on his tail section, er? the bikes? tail section that is...

I wonder whatever happened to that guy!

Any way, may you know the joy of the wind at your back, the thrilling beauty of an open rode lead and the blessings of all of us that have gone before you!

Thanks for giving the old guy a chance to ramble on. And as my Ex-wife used to say, ?Don?t pay any attention to him, he is odd!?

 

[doug g]

Let me premise this by saying I am not trying to act know-it-all or superior to anyone. So please don?t take anything the wrong way!

Are you talking about Track Days at the new track (Sandia) or a track like A.S.R. (Arroyo) or the old Bottomless Lakes track? (I?m betting Sandia.) Anyway I had heard it was only an oval (or a couple of ovals...) Pleased to hear that it?s got a twisty!!!!!!!

The key with racing motorcycles was balancing all of your monkeys. Stresses on the bike and your body were phenomenal, the guy who won the race was the one that broke late and rode as out of control as he could, understood his machine (a DNF doesn?t garner you anything) and made no mistakes.

A 4 cylinder Suzuki GS or Kawasaki KZ should hold up to anything you give it, but I wouldn?t take my street bike unless I was really prepared for some heartache.

I?d have to say I am pleased to hear that the vintage class halts at 1980. It wouldn?t be the same if GSXRs, Ninjas and Interceptors ruled the roost. Of course I say that with a stripped GSXR sitting behind the little house! (By the way what about the two strokes?)

Back when I raced you hung out at the Dunlop trailer or the factory boys after a race to get slicks for free. When it rained you cut your slicks by hand. You?d ride with a tranny that was going out or cracked rear sets. You?d bend your Bassani for clearance, a Vance and Hines didn?t do a thing (?xcept drop weight) unless you modified the intake or better yet took advantage of better lift and duration. Smoothbores took a stutter at the heavy cross winds on a South Western track. And Bates Leathers weren?t pretty! You spent a ton of time safety wiring the thing up or tearing down a box stock after a race to prove you didn?t have any disallowed mods. You were REAL nice to the track stewards and organizers. And you knew in your gut when a guy had you outclassed and no matter where you were, you took the inside posture and let him pass. Did I mention you occasionally dined on hay? You didn?t sleep on a feather bed, but your engine did. You?d buy, trade, beg track time like it was gold (it was.) Foot pegs got really warm and power slides tore up the NFGs. Your air cooled bike was a totally different beast at the end of a main than she was at the beginning. You?d listen patiently as some kid would relate how he WOULD race but his two stroke needed a good carb? cleaning. Going to work on Monday for a fellow RD racer who was a new father and had crashed that weekend. Laguna Seca on a light summer rain, enough said. And the pure joy when you realized if you rolled on enough power the bike had a tendency straighten itself up and when in a death wobble you could let go of the bars and the bike knew what to do! (Randy Mamola did it the hard way.)

I retired from racing because the wife insisted, not because it was the end of the road.

I would encourage others to try it out, is Keith Code still in the Super Bike School business? (Was it Willow Springs that he owned when he was on pipe?) Tha was so long ago!

I am ashamed to say that I do not know any of the current crop of racers; my day had John Surtees, Mike Baldwin, Eddie Lawson, Randy Mamola, Jimmy Adamo, the King and of course Mike the Bike! Speaking of Mike Hailwood why doesn?t any one mention the Dunstall/Suzuki GS1000 superbike??? (http://www.woodgate.org/dunstall/images/gs1000cs.jpg) You?d think this group would have been all over that one!

Hey does anyone remember the guy that used to race at P.I.R. with the Eagle Globe and Anchor on his tail section, er? the bikes? tail section that is...

I wonder whatever happened to that guy!

Any way, may you know the joy of the wind at your back, the thrilling beauty of an open rode lead and the blessings of all of us that have gone before you!

Thanks for giving the old guy a chance to ramble on. And as my Ex-wife used to say, ?Don?t pay any attention to him, he is odd!?

good stuff here. i am a huge fan of vintage racing and I wish more would participate. I took my 750E to the track last year and had a blast riding it (granted it was nothing compared to my FZR400RRSP I had at the time). I did realize that you had to take much different lines & brake much earlier. they just opened a track in Millville NJ and I am hoping that WERA or AHRMA start using the track for vintage motorcycle racing. If so you better believe that I will be assembling a vintage GS for racing.

 

[triffecpa]

yes, Sandia has a road race course that encompasses part of the main oval (it's turn one on the RR track). AHRMA has raced here for the last several years on its west coast swing (usually in Sept).

the local club (www.smri-racing.org) has a pretty active vintage contingent.

We run "Historic Vintage" which is '78 and older with limited mods and then "SuperVintage" which goes to '82 and has basically unlimited mods. Historic Vintage has a LW, MW and HW class.

I have since sold the GS and currently race a CB750 Honda in HV HW.

We have a little mini-series with the folks in Phoenix and go there twice a year (Feb and Nov) and then they come over to ABQ in Jul and Aug. In fact we're going to Firebird Main track tomorrow.

Come on out if anyone is in the area. Saturday is a Trackday and Sunday we'll have two vintage races.

Tracy

 

[bwringer]

I note that the OP seems to have vanished...

Oh well, it was a pretty good question and there's lots of good info here.

 

[moderntechnician]

triffecpa

Yes that is how most people handled the road racing requirement back in my day also.

Lots of classes, lots of sub-divisions, they way I always liked it. Short Quals, short Mains give everyone a chance to sit at the table (or in this case to taste the flavor of racing!)

Super Vintage huh, I imagine the ?82 GS1100?s and GPz?s must make that class interesting!

Hey any one remember BOTT?

Really, I have kids (and grand kids) now so I don?t spend the money on myself. Otherwise I would go back to racing. I imagine the camaraderie is still there as is the thrill!

The reason we liked Bassani?s were because they were tunable and you could pack them for whatever intake mods or new cams you could get. We?d do the same with RD pipes basing the mods on what some racers had trial-and-errored into a success. (Of course you had to love getting two stroke goo all over you, yum!) In my day the Vance and Hines wasn?t repackable, or at least repackable for performance, has that changed? Also we'd heat them and bend them up and out of the way, hey if it looked good it probably didn't perform...


(Oh, I posted some race and performance bike pics in my albums, hope you all enjoy them (they are of course ancient stuff.))

Any way be good to each other, thanks for this thread, and may God Bless!

(Can you believe someone actually listened to the dinosaur (me) and enjoyed his post! Nothing good can possibly come of that!)