1982 GS 850 Cam installation

[TheCleekster]

I am trying to finish replacing the top end gaskets on my GS850.

My problem is, that when I install the cams, the engine will not turn clockwise (correct direction) but it will turn counter-clockwise.

With the cams out, I can rotate the crank all day long without a hitch. I have tried to follow the TDC timing instructions, but I can't find any sort of marking behind the right side ignition cover.

Could someone post a picture of what a 1982 GS850G timing line up should look like for the crank at the ignition cover?

This bike ran before I started replacing gaskets, I had a few small leaks and I'm in engineering, so I thought I'd give it a try. Now I'm kicking myself because now I have a dead bike instead of a dirty running bike...

 

[Guest]

You are putting cams in without having the bike at TDC 1-4?
I'm pretty sure you don't have a mechanical advance but you do have a plate with a notch on it. The plate is behind the pickups. The rotor that bolts on to the end of the crank has timing marks on it.
You may have to get a flash light and shine it through a round window.
Make sure you have the EX cams at the exhaust end and the IN cams next to the carbs.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Maybe this will help. This was my bike, set to TDC, just before I took the cams off last weekend.

There should be 19 pins between the #3 mark on the intake cam and #2 on the exhaust cam (20 if you count the starting pin directly above #3).

Drat! Brian's (bwringer) site seems to be down. He's got a great tutorial on how to find TDC.
EDIT: Found it! Where the ^%$#@! is TDC (Top Dead Center)?

Have a look at THIS THREAD for lots of disassembly pictures. I'll take more when I put it back together.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[TheCleekster]

Okay, thank you for the picture, guys. Since I couldn't find the TDC mark, I was trying to do it with just watching the #4 piston to see when it was fully at top.

I Couldn't see behind that window, but those pictures helped immensely. Exactly what I was hoping for. Here's to hoping that I can get this bike running again!

I'll post an update next week once I can work on it again, sadly I can only have my garage as a workshop every other week since my dad is a truck driver. Week on week off nonsense.

-TheCleekster

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Does yours have the electronic advance? If so, use the information on Mr. bwringer's page. You can also download a manual from the links below.

Here's even more information for you...

If you are here you probably have a 30 year old motorcycle that needs about 20 years worth of maintenance. In the links below you'll find maintenance lists, documentation, wiring diagrams, "how to" guides, vendor links, tips, tricks, and a whole lot of GS goodness. This is your "mega-welcome". Let's get started.

Let me dump a TON of information on you and share some GS lovin'.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Cleanup Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. This is what NOT to do: Top 10 Newbie Mistakes. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please Click Here For Your Mega-Welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

More links to helpful threads in the forum:
Help! Your Bike Won't Start
DON'T DO THESE THINGS
Help! Your Bike Won't Run Well
Oh God! Pods!


Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[TheCleekster]

In my confusion, I finally understand where to put TDC at, I'll tackle this problem tomorrow, because I have a Calculus II test tomorrow :/

But just for reference, here's my ignition plate, I was trying to do it like the one BassCliff posted, but not, mines a different version. I feel like an idiot. I really should eat before I try to work on bikes so I can think straight.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Yours has the electronic advance. Mine does not.

With yours, the mark between the "T" and "F" needs to be lined up with the left trigger (pickup).

In the picture below, you would line up the two big green pointers (from Mr. bwringer's site):

----------------------------------------------------
Later Electronic Ignition Models (electronic advance)

TDC for cylinders #1 and #4 is the hash mark between the "T" and the "F". Jon is actually just past TDC in this photo -- he needs to rotate the crank clockwise almost a full turn until the hash mark lines up with the #1/4 pickup.

The ignition pickup for cylinders #1 and #4 is on the left, and the pickup for #2 and #3 is on the right. If you have a 2 cylinder bike, the left pickup fires #1 and the right pickup fires #2. Just pretend you never saw #3 and #4.

The #1 cylinder is on your left as you sit on a bike. In case you were wondering.
-----------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[TheCleekster]

Good news and devestation

Good news and devestation

Good news first:

I got the timing right and finally got the thing to crank over freely with everything installed and snug.

Bad news:

I didn't set the head gasket well or the mating surfaces weren't cleaned enough. So I'm only getting 30 psi on my cylinders. I torqued the headbolts to specification, bought myself a torque wrench and everything.

I'm at a loss. I don't want to throw any more money at this bike. So I'm selling it and recouping some of my losses.

You guys have been great! If I buy another GS, I'll definitely come back here. But it'll be a year before I save up enough money. This one only cost me $650 initially and $890 total invested in the end.

Poor college student here, Electrical Engineer. It was a fun enough experience, I just want to get my money back and together to buy a well maintained and reliable bike.

-TheCleekster

 

[Guest]

Put it together and ride it! You have to seat the rings before you can get good compression numbers.
Plus these numbers are on a cold motor and were the carbs installed? If they were you have to open the butterflies up to take readings.

Plus you may be a tooth off on the timing.

 

[TheCleekster]

I'm not sure if that'll fix it. I did the compression test with the carburetor off and cranked it over with the electric starter a good 10-20 times. But I'll try it. I have a potential buyer and will sell it monday if it doesn't work.

-TheCleekster

 

[Guest]

If you put in used rings on a cylinder that was not honed then it will take a minute while running to seat the rings. If at all.

 

[TheCleekster]

I only did the head gasket, I didn't take it down to the base. I didn't mess with the rings at all. I just have to find my vacuum line and try to turn it over to see if it works. But I've got offers to buy it from craigslist. So we'll see.

 

[Guest]

If it ran good before then I doubt it's the head gasket or the rings.
Double check your cam timing.

 

[Steve]

I only did the head gasket, I didn't take it down to the base.

Good luck. :-\\\

About 99.9% of the time, the process of removing the head also disturbs the base gasket.

As a general rule, any time you replace the head gasket, you should replace the base gasket, too.

.

 

[TheCleekster]

I don't have the tools to take the base off, I wouldn't be able to reinstall the rings, and I can't afford 4 new sets of rings. Plus the base gasket doesn't effect compression, does it?

I just have one question, when I took the head off, the side with the valve cover, there were these humps between cylinders 1&2 and 3&4. I didn't know what they were, and they kinda just flaked off. These humps rested over some sort of oil passages. It looked like rust/old baked on head gasket. Did I make a grave mistake?

 

[TheCleekster]

I also noticed a number on the cam, it said "450" and I doubt that a 450 cam shaft would work in an 850 engine, so I have no idea what the 450 means unless it means a 450 cam shaft found its way into my 850.

TheCleekster

 

[Guest]

I also noticed a number on the cam, it said "450" and I doubt that a 450 cam shaft would work in an 850 engine, so I have no idea what the 450 means unless it means a 450 cam shaft found its way into my 850.

TheCleekster

They would not fit so no worries.

 

[Steve]

I don't have the tools to take the base off,
I wouldn't be able to reinstall the rings,
and I can't afford 4 new sets of rings.
Plus the base gasket doesn't effect compression, does it?

- There are no more tools necessary to remove the cylinders after you have removed the head. In fact, once the head is off, you only need bare hands to remove the cylinders.
- The rings will not be removed in the process, there is no need to re-install them.
- To simply replace the base gasket, you will not need new rings. You will also not need to hone the cylinders.
- The base gasket neither effects compression nor affects it, but it does control some oil flow.

When you get your engine together and see the oil leak around the base gasket you will be kicking yourself while thinking about this thread. Please remember, we are not telling you this to scare you off, we are doing this so you don't repeat the same mistakes that we made. If you insist on making them yourself, go ahead and pre-order another head gasket and set aside yet another day for wrenching on the bike. When you get your bike together the second time, you, too, will be joining the chorus of "change the base gasket, too".

I just have one question, when I took the head off, the side with the valve cover, there were these humps between cylinders 1&2 and 3&4. I didn't know what they were, and they kinda just flaked off. These humps rested over some sort of oil passages. It looked like rust/old baked on head gasket. Did I make a grave mistake?

Really can not picture what you are talking about. Any chance you can post a picture? Even if it's in its current state, then use MS Paint or some other program to draw some circles and arrows on the 27 color glossy photographs. :-\\\

The only "humps" I can imagine between the cylinders are the bearings for the cams. They should be bolted rather securely and would certainly not "flake" off. :-k

I also noticed a number on the cam, it said "450" and I doubt that a 450 cam shaft would work in an 850 engine, so I have no idea what the 450 means unless it means a 450 cam shaft found its way into my 850.

Considering that the 450 was a twin-cylinder bike and MUCH narrower, there is no way that it would even fit, let alone work, in your bike. The 450 was the model number for the sprocket (not the cam) and is appropriate for your bike.

.

 

[TheCleekster]

Thanks Steve!

That was a lot of helpful information.

I just don't know how to get the pistons back in the jug if I take the base off as well. Because on this tiller engine I rebuilt, I had to get this piston ring compression tool and install the piston from the top and re attach the crank arm to the crank shaft (If that makes sense)

I'm going to try tearing it down, I think my mating surfaces are warped or not clean enough. My bike would get HOT, like instantly bluing the header pipes. So I may need to get my heads decked. Do you know how much that would cost normally? So I don't get ripped off?

Thanks again, I'll definitely try again before giving up,
TheCleekster

 

[TheCleekster]

Does anyone know if there's any GS owners in the Northwest Arkansas area?

Someone that has done something like this before?