2 brush or 4 brush starter

[gsryder]

So I have been doing some reading on here and I am trying to identify my starter if it is a two brush or a 4 brush style. I havent taken it out yet that would obviously be the easiest route, but I want to get a rebuild kit ordered and havent had time to get the starter out so.....

it has a ND insignia on it and the name as best as I can tell is

Nippondenso
310000A00
128000 1320
10E18

Can anyone let me know what rebuild kit I need 2 brush or 4 brush.

Also for what is it worth from other research I have done I am pretty sure it is out of a 83 1150 it uses the smaller tooth style for the gear. As I had both idle gears and it only fit the 70 tooth style gear, which I believe is the 1150.

Thanks

 

[Redman]

I dont know first hand, but found this:



http://www.stockers.com/index.php?dt=RBK-4

Products for:Suzuki Motorcycles 86-84 GS1150

Repair Kit - DensoStockers #:RBK-4Type:NewReplacesensoRetail Price:$44.95Your Price:$29.95You Save:$15.00Warranty:One Year

Repair Kit
For: 2-Brush Denso
Small Engine Starters

For this starter:
Starter
Fits: Suzuki Motorcycle
1984-1986 GS1150
12 Volt, CCW, 10 Teeth
Repair parts 2-Brush Denso Starters:
Repair Kit: RBK-4
Brushes Only: B-4
Brush Holder Assy: ND-L

 

[tom203]

So I have been doing some reading on here and I am trying to identify my starter if it is a two brush or a 4 brush style. I havent taken it out yet that would obviously be the easiest route, but I want to get a rebuild kit ordered and havent had time to get the starter out so.....

it has a ND insignia on it and the name as best as I can tell is

Nippondenso
310000A00
128000 1320
10E18

Can anyone let me know what rebuild kit I need 2 brush or 4 brush.

Also for what is it worth from other research I have done I am pretty sure it is out of a 83 1150 it uses the smaller tooth style for the gear. As I had both idle gears and it only fit the 70 tooth style gear, which I believe is the 1150.

Thanks

I thought they were all two brush starters in these years.

 

[DPage]

This is a followup on the thread of 2011 above, about how to tell if the starter motor is a 2-brush starter (Denso/Nippondenso brand) or a 4-brush starter (Mitsuba brand). My starter works fine now, but shows signs of needing new brushes, so I'd like to rebuild it.

In my search, I was hoping to find if it was possible to determine 2-brush vs 4-brush by taking off the stainless-steel top cover and find a label on the motor that showed one brand or the other. This is because I am lazy and do not want to remove the starter, only to put it back in until the spare parts come and then remove it again to do the starter rebuild. On my bike, taking out the starter motor means removing the airbox, carbs, cam chain tensioner, etc. I've read through this search that some people are mechanical geniuses and can take out the starter without removing the carbs, but I doubt I'm that skilled.

So here's what I found on an '82 850G, and it won't make you happy. With a flashlight, I looked high and low in that little box that holds the starter motor for a brand name/label (Denso or Mitsuba), and only found the stylized Suzuki "S" on the front of the motor. The label must be on the bottom side, where it can't be seen. And for rebuilt motors, I'm sure the label is gone because commercial rebuilders often paint the motor on the outside.

For lazy people like me, the only solution seems to be remove the motor, figure out the 2-brush/4-brush question, replace the motor if you want to ride it while spare parts come, and do the same thing all over again when the parts arrive.

Sorry everybody, wish I could give you better news. If anybody knows other markings or signs that tell the motor brand without seeing the label, I'm all ears.

 

[Steve]

On my bike, taking out the starter motor means removing the airbox, carbs, cam chain tensioner, etc. I've read through this search that some people are mechanical geniuses and can take out the starter without removing the carbs, but I doubt I'm that skilled.

It takes neither skill nor genius. :-\\\

Especially with your bike.

It's a bit tight, but you only need to remove the stainless cover, the wire from the solenoid and the hold-down bolts to pull the starter.

An 850 is probably one of the easiest engines to do this on, so enjoy. :encouragement:

.

 

[DPage]

Thanks Steve, you're the mechanical genius I was thinking about. But I've looked in there and it's pretty tight. I'll give it a try and report back.

 

[Steve]

Yes, it's a bit "snug", but I have done it on a '79, '81 and '83 850, so I have a little experience with all three variations.

.

 

[Guest]

Yes, it's a bit "snug", but I have done it on a '79, '81 and '83 850, so I have a little experience with all three variations.

.

The same holds true for my bike. The shop manual makes it sound like you need to disassemble half of the bike but, in reality, the starter can be removed in about 5 minutes.

 

[Brendan W]

When you're putting it back don't pull it fully towards you as the o-ring seal will go too far and make it difficult to get the feet of the motor back in position. I reckon this is how some of the seals get pinched and oil starts dripping out the 'mystery hole'.

 

[Guest]

If you look at the "end" of your starter from the other side, below the carb's from cylinder no4 you may see some identifying Mark's, like on my 82 1100L it say's Mitsuba sm-6210 12v 0.6kw. I'm pretty sure my 80 850L has the same starter, can't see why it wouldn't, and I made a note of its description at a time but now that I need it, naturally I can't find it.....Without the Chrome cover!!!

 

[Redman]

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For lazy people like me, the only solution seems to be remove the motor, figure out the 2-brush/4-brush question, replace the motor if you want to ride it while spare parts come, and do the same thing all over again when the parts arrive.

Sorry everybody, wish I could give you better news. If anybody knows other markings or signs that tell the motor brand without seeing the label, I'm all ears.

I now think that don't need to remove the starter, but that certainly is an option (hardest part is getting out those two screws that cant see well). Only really need to see the lettering on the end of the motor to see if is Nippondenso (maybe Denso or ND) which is 2 brush of if is Mitsuba which is 4 brush. Maybe can get a light and mirror on that without removing the starter.

I also understand that some model and years of a bike can have either type, so, yes, do need to look to know.

.

 

[Brendan W]

I now think that don't need to remove the starter, but that certainly is an option (hardest part is getting out those two screws that cant see well).
.

Mini ratchet set with a 2" extension makes it real easy. Plenty of room in there. Hardest part is getting them started straight going back especially as a new o-ring on the front end makes it more difficult to shift the motor.

 

[DPage]

Thanks everybody, unskilled as I am, I took your advice and got the starter out without removing carbs, etc. It was all done from the left side of the bike, and not nearly as hard as it looks. Now I know it's a Mitsuba, and can buy the right rebuild kit.

 

[DPage]

When the starter is removed, here's something else to consider. You're likely to find all kinds of accumulated junk in the bottom of the starter motor box, and want to clean it out. Do that as much as you want, but if you use an air compressor, tape off the hole (about 1 1/2" in diameter) that was created by removing the starter. That way, random junk (little rocks, sludge, etc.) doesn't make its way into the guts of the engine.

Thanks again for your good advice, you saved me about 4 hours of shop time.