550-not turning over, no fire

[Invictus22]

So I just got done chasing down all my electrical for a different problem. But now it won't fire or even try to turnover or anything. Like I said, all wiring is good, but for some reason it won't even try and turnover or crank. Any ideas? Thank you!

 

[cowboyup3371]

Fuses checked properly?

 

[Big T]

Ignition switch?

I am assuming it all worked before

 

[Invictus22]

Fuses checked properly?

Yup all fuses are good to go.

 

[Invictus22]

Ignition switch?

I am assuming it all worked before

Actually it did at one point but not when I bought it. Checked ignition switch, it is getting power and by all means should be working, just isn't.

 

[Redman]

............................ But now it won't fire or even try to turnover or anything. ....

Actually it did at one point but not when I bought it. Checked ignition switch, it is getting power and by all means should be working, just isn't.

So aparently you do have a multimeter to check things with. Good.

You have a scematic, so can find wire colors? And can check to see where you have power and where you dont ...?

Circuit for the starter solenoid is like this:
- Ignition fuse to kill switch.
- Kill switch to starter button (and to coils and ignitor)
- starter button to clutch swtich (called interlock on some schematics)
- clutch swtich to solenoid.
Check for power along that circuit at any place you can get to and tell us what you find.
Probably esiest place to get a meter on is the small wire on the solenmoid. With key on and kill swith in run and pull in clutch and hit starter button see if gettinhg power there. If not then need to find where along the circuit are losing it (I suspect the clutch swtich, which can be adjusted).
Also, if take off the tank, can get to the coils to see if power there when key on and kill swtich in run.
Tell us what you find.

I am trying to tell you what you need to know in order to troubleshoot and find where the problem is in the starter button-n-solenoid circuit. Other option is to just randomly replace things or blindly change things. Or someone tells you what they did to fix a similar sounding problem, but that is not specifically what is causing your specific problem.



- ANd solenoid gets its ground by the solenoid being mounted to the battery box, but the battery box gets its ground by a black/white wire from wiring harness.
Can sometimes be a problem there.

When checking to "see if power is there" at say the solenoid small wire: Put red meter lead on "there" and black lead on battery negitive (if use frame ground is often hard to get thru paint or whatever). If do see that "power is there", then do the test again with red meter lead on same place "there" yet, but this time with black lead on the solenoid case or mounting bolt, making sure to scratch lead into the metal, if dont see power then (but you know it "was there"), then you know the problem is that the battery box isnt grounded so therefore the solenoid isnt grounded.
Anyway, tell us more what you find.


Another way to check some things:
- Jumper the two big posts togeter on the solenoid. Can do this with thick wire or jumper cables or two screwdrivers. THis will see if starter will operate if the soleonid would operate.
- Jumper the big post of solenoid (the one from battery) to the small wire on solenoid. Can do this with with a piece of wire, carefull you dont jumper it to the solenoid case or other ground. This will try to make the solenoid pull in the same as if the starter button circuit would pull it in.
Try these and tell us what you find.


Also Note: If ignition swtich was bad, you also would not get headlight nor instrument lights nor tail lights. You didnt say anything about that, one way or the other.
Maybe should have asked to verify that first.
.

 

[Invictus22]

So aparently you do have a multimeter to check things with. Good.

You have a scematic, so can find wire colors? And can check to see where you have power and where you dont ...?

Circuit for the starter solenoid is like this:
- Ignition fuse to kill switch.
- Kill switch to starter button (and to coils and ignitor)
- starter button to clutch swtich (called interlock on some schematics)
- clutch swtich to solenoid.
Check for power along that circuit at any place you can get to and tell us what you find.
Probably esiest place to get a meter on is the small wire on the solenmoid. With key on and kill swith in run and pull in clutch and hit starter button see if gettinhg power there. If not then need to find where along the circuit are losing it (I suspect the clutch swtich, which can be adjusted).
Also, if take off the tank, can get to the coils to see if power there when key on and kill swtich in run.
Tell us what you find.

I am trying to tell you what you need to know in order to troubleshoot and find where the problem is in the starter button-n-solenoid circuit. Other option is to just randomly replace things or blindly change things. Or someone tells you what they did to fix a similar sounding problem, but that is not specifically what is causing your specific problem.



- ANd solenoid gets its ground by the solenoid being mounted to the battery box, but the battery box gets its ground by a black/white wire from wiring harness.
Can sometimes be a problem there.

When checking to "see if power is there" at say the solenoid small wire: Put red meter lead on "there" and black lead on battery negitive (if use frame ground is often hard to get thru paint or whatever). If do see that "power is there", then do the test again with red meter lead on same place "there" yet, but this time with black lead on the solenoid case or mounting bolt, making sure to scratch lead into the metal, if dont see power then (but you know it "was there"), then you know the problem is that the battery box isnt grounded so therefore the solenoid isnt grounded.
Anyway, tell us more what you find.


Another way to check some things:
- Jumper the two big posts togeter on the solenoid. Can do this with thick wire or jumper cables or two screwdrivers. THis will see if starter will operate if the soleonid would operate.
- Jumper the big post of solenoid (the one from battery) to the small wire on solenoid. Can do this with with a piece of wire, carefull you dont jumper it to the solenoid case or other ground. This will try to make the solenoid pull in the same as if the starter button circuit would pull it in.
Try these and tell us what you find.


Also Note: If ignition swtich was bad, you also would not get headlight nor instrument lights nor tail lights. You didnt say anything about that, one way or the other.
Maybe should have asked to verify that first.
.

Thanks for all the advice!


Ok so what I can tell you is: starter solenoid is getting power like it should be.
Tank is off the bike.
All electrical including headlight and cluster work fine, just chased those demons down.
But for some reason. The plug wires are getting no power, I stuck my circuit tester in the end of one and got nothing. What might cause this? I am guessing that will have a big impact on why it isn't wanting to turn over.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Plug wires or coil wires? There is not going to be voltage in the plug wires. There should be constant voltage at the orange/white wires leading into the ignition coils, as compared to the battery (-) terminal. That voltage should be ever-present when the bike is in run, and should be <1V different than the voltage across the battery terminals. The ignition's job is to ground the coils and disconnect said ground when it's time to fire.

I hate terms like "turn over" - when you say it won't turn over does that mean the starter doesn't even turn the motor under electrical power, or just that the engine never starts igniting (as in, turning over on its own without the starter)?

What year 550 are we talking about here?

Thanks for all the advice!


Ok so what I can tell you is: starter solenoid is getting power like it should be.
Tank is off the bike.
All electrical including headlight and cluster work fine, just chased those demons down.
But for some reason. The plug wires are getting no power, I stuck my circuit tester in the end of one and got nothing. What might cause this? I am guessing that will have a big impact on why it isn't wanting to turn over.

 

[Invictus22]

Plug wires or coil wires? There is not going to be voltage in the plug wires. There should be constant voltage at the orange/white wires leading into the ignition coils, as compared to the battery (-) terminal. That voltage should be ever-present when the bike is in run, and should be <1V different than the voltage across the battery terminals. The ignition's job is to ground the coils and disconnect said ground when it's time to fire.

I hate terms like "turn over" - when you say it won't turn over does that mean the starter doesn't even turn the motor under electrical power, or just that the engine never starts igniting (as in, turning over on its own without the starter)?

What year 550 are we talking about here?

Thank you this helped a lot. Ok so I am working on it right and after trouble shooting, I am sadly finding out that the ignition coils are getting no power and traced it back and am trying to figure out why and where the power ends or gets cut off.
The year is a 1980 and as for "turning over" I mean it in the most basic sense. Everything hooked up and ready to go, and I push the start button and get nothing, no crank no spark, nothing.

 

[Invictus22]

Ok so after a ton of wire chasing I think it may be the rectifier if bad or out. Would this be a cause of no start or power to the ignition coils?

 

[Suzuki_Don]

IMO it would not be the rectifier unless the rectifier is bad and has flattened the battery. But you say you have lights, so it does not sound like the battery is flat. I would say you have wired something up incorrectly. Go over the work you have done and recheck everything and compare it to the wiring diagram as you go.

If all else fails try activating the solenoid with a wire from the battery to the solenoid terminal. The small, thin wire - green & yellow from memory. If that turns the motor over then you know where to start looking.

Good luck.

 

[Redman]

You say have power to solenoid like suppose to. ah ... er... you mean power at the big red wire from battery? You mean power at big red wire to starter motor when you push button? You mean power at small wire to solenoid (from starter button circuit) when you push button?

The above is most important thing we need to know to help you at this point.

Below are some other comments:

If you have power at solenoid small wire from starter button circuit, but the solenoid doesnt even click .... that is what I was talking about before about maybe solenoid-batterybox has lost its ground. Is hard to describe to someone who doesn not already understand it. Is easy to understand if already understand it. I tried to give step by step directions to troubleshoot this, that can follow even if dont really understand it.
If you want to try installing fixes without really determining if that is your problem or not, you could run another ground wire from batterybox bolt (where solenoid is mounted) to the battery negitive, and see if that makes a difference.

You are not going to get a spark if it doesnt "turnover", even if everthing is okay with ignition. Even if every device is good, and all the wiring good, and power is to everything, and everthing is grounded that has to be grounded, the igintion system isnt gonna even try to mnake a spark until the crankshaft turns and triggers the pickup coil (or breaker points if pre 1980).

Even if had a bad rectifier, you could probably charge battery with a battery charger and should be able to get things to work (just could not get it to start more than a few times untill needs recharging).
Are you doing this with good battery voltage? You check battery voltage before trying this?

So, no, rectifyer is not what is going to keep starter from starting, unless battery is not charged, but then other things would not work either.

.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Just checked the wiring diagram for an '80 model, the Y/G wire goes from one side of the starter button to the starter motor solenoid. Don't forget the starter motor interlocking switch.