Well, I'm havin' a hard time gettin' the cylinder block down over the new rings. Never tried this before. Can any of you old timers share a tip on gettin' those pistons back into the cylinders?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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'81 550T?ring job
- Thread starter Buffalo Bill
- Start date
R
ratdude
Guest
Find yourself four hose clamps that fit the pistons . use them to act as a ring compressor . LIGHTLY tighten them , we are trying to compress the rings not clamp the pistons . Once you get the rings inside the cylinder ( the clamps should slide down the pistons ) , remove the clamps .
You did clean out the ring grooves on the pistons , didn't you ? One piece of carbon under a ring will make this job damn near impossible .
Rat
You did clean out the ring grooves on the pistons , didn't you ? One piece of carbon under a ring will make this job damn near impossible .
Rat
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ratdude
Guest
( Just got back from work ) and another , Oil is your best friend here , good clean oil .
If your not making a mess of your work area and yourself , you need more oil .
Rat
If your not making a mess of your work area and yourself , you need more oil .
Rat
S
SqDancerLynn1
Guest
Block the center two pistons up with a block of wood Make sure the rings are staggered according to the book Use a Popsicle stick or hose clamps or lg zip ties get the center one's in first. Then work on the outer two
T
tejasmud
Guest
No "old timer" here, :lol:
But, +1 on blocking up the center pistons, and popsicle sticks. I used no compressors of any sort on the stock lead ins, no oil, and things seemed to go together smoothly. Not saying it wouldn't help, just didn't see that they were really needed.
In opinion don't use excessive force to get the cylinder down if it seems to be be in a bind. Once the rings are in, the cylinder should push down with little effort. Also, pay close attention to the oil rings as they go in, so not to booger them up.
E
But, +1 on blocking up the center pistons, and popsicle sticks. I used no compressors of any sort on the stock lead ins, no oil, and things seemed to go together smoothly. Not saying it wouldn't help, just didn't see that they were really needed.
In opinion don't use excessive force to get the cylinder down if it seems to be be in a bind. Once the rings are in, the cylinder should push down with little effort. Also, pay close attention to the oil rings as they go in, so not to booger them up.
E
D
DanTheMan
Guest
I never install rings dry. Lots of oil required to lubricate the cylinder and rings because you're going to need to rotate the crank to do the job, and no oil on the piston and rings will leave scratches in your newly honed cylinders. The hose clamp idea works.
I install the rings dry, into a dry cylinder.
A fair number of people break rings when installing the cylinder because they don't get the rings compressed properly. Please be careful and find a helper if you can't do it by yourself.
A fair number of people break rings when installing the cylinder because they don't get the rings compressed properly. Please be careful and find a helper if you can't do it by yourself.
Just waitin' for a new ring to arrive?
Just waitin' for a new ring to arrive?
SqDancerLynn1: ?Block the center two pistons up with a block of wood Make sure the rings are staggered according to the book Use a Popsicle stick or hose clamps or lg zip ties get the center one's in first. Then work on the outer two.?
This time I'll use a piece of wood to support the center pistons, plus I'll have hose clamps on all the pistons.
Bill
Just waitin' for a new ring to arrive?
Oops, almost but I didn't use too much force. I bent one of the second rings. So I'm waiting for one new set to arrive. I cut some bands out of sheet steel that will widen the effective of the hose clamps, and I got a hose clamp for each piston.
SqDancerLynn1: ?Block the center two pistons up with a block of wood Make sure the rings are staggered according to the book Use a Popsicle stick or hose clamps or lg zip ties get the center one's in first. Then work on the outer two.?
This time I'll use a piece of wood to support the center pistons, plus I'll have hose clamps on all the pistons.
Bill
S
Skateguy50
Guest
my repair book for the 650 gave me a template for a cut out to make in wood to hold the block in place gently while I get the others installed. Worked pretty good. I used lots of oil and more wood to compress them as I slid them in. I didnt hone or do any work though, just replaced the gaskets and back together... maybe that makes it easier not sure.
S
Suzuki_Don
Guest
This a picture of the wooden support in place and doing what it was designed to do on my 550. It is more difficult getting the pistons into the 550 cylinders than the larger motors as the pistons are closer together and the stroke is shorter which gives less room to move.
Nice photo.
Nice photo.
Thanks.
Nice photo.
So true! Great photo you made there, but it's the next step that's the hard one. Getting the outside pistons up the cylinders. Got a pic showing that?
Thanks.
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S
Suzuki_Don
Guest
Hey BB, here are a couple of more pics for you. You will notice that I did not use the wooden blocks on the outside pistons. The reason for this is that to get the pistons high enough to get the wooden blocks underneath requires rotating the crankshaft and this brings the centre pistons down and then their rings pop out of the cylinders. Start all over again.
I too broke a ring when inserting the pistons and had to buy another ring set. Mine were 650 rings but I struck the same problem. In my case one of the ring lands on the piston was damaged slightly (not visible to the nakes eye) and the ring was not free in this portion of the ring land (it was pinched and would not rotate around the piston or compress). I used a points file to clean it up and then the piston went on with no further problems.
I too broke a ring when inserting the pistons and had to buy another ring set. Mine were 650 rings but I struck the same problem. In my case one of the ring lands on the piston was damaged slightly (not visible to the nakes eye) and the ring was not free in this portion of the ring land (it was pinched and would not rotate around the piston or compress). I used a points file to clean it up and then the piston went on with no further problems.
Thanks for the details.
Thanks for the details.
Hey Don, thanks!
Now that's what I'm talkin' about!
Bill
Thanks for the details.
Hey Don, thanks!
Now that's what I'm talkin' about!
Bill
Steve
GS Whisperer
You have a big-bore kit on your 550? :-kThis a picture of the wooden support in place and doing what it was designed to do on my 550. ...
The stamp on the cylinder block sure looks like it says "673 cm^3"
.
I'm not sure I'm following along here. I did rebuild an old Pontiac Firebird engine so I am familiar with what you are doing but I'm not getting what I am seeing. I understand you are using the hose clamp to tighten the rings to slide the piston in but what is that other sleeve? Do you just loosen and slide the hose clamp down once the top part of the engine slides over the first ring? Are you just completely loosening the hose clamp once it is at the last ring to remove it? And even with reading the other posts, why do you need to support the inside pistons with the wood? Again, I'm not following along even after doing the car before...sorry.
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mike_of_bbg
Guest
Big difference. On journal crank bearing motors like almost any car and most any other motorcycle, you can drop the pistons down one at a time into the motor, then bolt the caps. On the roller bearing crank GSes, the rods are pressed with bearings on the crank. Short of using a press they're "permanently" attached. There's no way to lower the pistons into the cylinders. The pistons go onto the rods first and you drop the cylinders over the pistons, which thus go in two at a time.
I think you're looking at the cylinder bore; they project below the cylinder base into the crankcase when installed.
Just install the clamp loosely enough to where it slides off as the cylinder pushes it down. Normal ring compressors usually can't be taken all the way apart (and thus would be stuck around the con rods) so hose clamps are a cheap and effective alternative to the specialized ring compressors needed for RBC motors.
First, the pistons really have to be square to go into the bores nicely. So the wood blocks help hold them square, together, as the bores are dropped over. Second, it keeps the bores from pushing the pistons down into the crankcase.
Usually once the inner two pistons are in it's a bit easier to get the outboard pistons installed. If someone fairly strong is helping you it's not that hard to compress the outboard rings with your fingers as the cylinders come down. The cylinder bores do have a taper inside at the bottom to help get the rings in.
S
Suzuki_Don
Guest
You have a big-bore kit on your 550? :-k
The stamp on the cylinder block sure looks like it says "673 cm^3"
Yes STEVE, it has a big bore kit and out of interest with the 1mm overbore it gives 700cc or 699cc to be exact.
The hp figures for the bikes of that era were:
GS550 -- 49hp
GS650 -- 73hp
GS750 -- 72hp
GS850 -- 77hp
The 650 swish head with centrally sited spark plugs gives the extra power as well for the 2-valve motor, add less weight that the 850, add a 6-speed transmission.
It's all looking good. Only about 1 hours work to be done before I can do the initial startup after 2 1/2 years work on this project.
Wow, give us some sources and prices!
Wow, give us some sources and prices!
Hey Don,
Way cool! Can you give us some sources and prices for that job? We'll really appreciate it!
Bill
Wow, give us some sources and prices!
Hey Don,
Way cool! Can you give us some sources and prices for that job? We'll really appreciate it!
Bill
You have a big-bore kit on your 550? :-k
The stamp on the cylinder block sure looks like it says "673 cm^3"
Yes STEVE, it has a big bore kit and out of interest with the 1mm overbore it gives 700cc or 699cc to be exact.
The hp figures for the bikes of that era were:
GS550 -- 49hp
GS650 -- 73hp
GS750 -- 72hp
GS850 -- 77hp
The 650 swish head with centrally sited spark plugs gives the extra power as well for the 2-valve motor, add less weight that the 850, add a 6-speed transmission.
It's all looking good. Only about 1 hours work to be done before I can do the initial startup after 2 1/2 years work on this project.
Got them up the holes?
Got them up the holes?
Yes, I got dem in dere!
Took 2 hours of fiddlin' though. This ain't a job for a squid. What it say in the manual is simple and correct, but you have to have lots of patience, and the mechanical gift to get it done.
This is what I can ad to the data base, these made it easier for me, little steel strips inside the hose clamps.
Got them up the holes?
Yes, I got dem in dere!
Took 2 hours of fiddlin' though. This ain't a job for a squid. What it say in the manual is simple and correct, but you have to have lots of patience, and the mechanical gift to get it done.
This is what I can ad to the data base, these made it easier for me, little steel strips inside the hose clamps.
S
Suzuki_Don
Guest
Yes, I got dem in dere!
Took 2 hours of fiddlin' though. This ain't a job for a squid. What it say in the manual is simple and correct, but you have to have lots of patience, and the mechanical gift to get it done.
This is what I can ad to the data base, these made it easier for me, little steel strips inside the hose clamps.
Yes BB, you certainly need to be an ingenius B**t**d to work on these GS bikes at times. On the 550 some tasks are easier than the bigger bikes, but not very often. The larger bikes generally have more space to do things, e.g. removing the air box and carburettors from a 550 compared to a 1000.
Great you got the job done. I will probably do a project write up on my whole conversion in the near future and will not clog up your post with all the infinite detail. BTW there are a couple of other posts in the search feature on this conversion from 550 to 650 or to put it another way from 49hp to 73hp (49% increase in power).
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