82 1100GL Final Drive

[Doldrums]

My '82 1100GL is make a "grinding" noise from the final drive. If you put your hand on it, you can feel it.

My local bike shop says it will take about 3 hours to diagnose @ $70 per hour. I think they are trying to rip me off.

I have a couple of questions:
o How hard is it to remove the final drive and inspect?
o Is it common for these to go bad? It has always had gear oil in it at the right level (only 18K miles)
o Do you repair final drives, or just find replacements?
o If replace... where can I find? I looked on eBay (current and closed) and can't see where one was ever sold.
o What parts would I need to put it back on (or a new one)? Seals, etc?

Thanks for any help you can give me! I'm fairly handy... just not good at diagnostics... and have a small 1 car garage! :-|

 

[rustybronco]

Take the wheel off and look at the splines between the final drive and the wheel first.

 

[Doldrums]

Okay. Will try to get done tonight. If not, it will have to be this weekend.

 

[Redman]

When you pull the wheel off to inspect the splines, yhou will also want to pull the hub from the wheel to gett a good look at where the splines wear. Well, where it wears if not greased.

I have emailed you some pics.

 

[Doldrums]

82 1100GL Final Drive - Oh Crap!

82 1100GL Final Drive - Oh Crap!

I believe the gear that is on the rear wheel is near total failure. Could someone please look at http://doldrums.homeip.net/gs1100 and confirm?

Also, what about the gear that is attached to the final drive? I only took one picture of it... but do they normally go bad as well? Is there any reason for me to "tear into" the final drive itself?

Thank You! Thank You! for any responses!!

 

[Redman]

AH, Yep, Close to complete failure.
Notice how each spline is notched, is wider at the end. The whole spline was origonally as wide as the part on the end.

My understanding it that the splines in the hub wears if not greased, not the splines in the drive unit. At least in 82 and after. That way if not lubed, the hub fails rather than the drive unit. The hub is easier to replace.
I also understand that the hubs prior to 82 were harder material (how some people know this, I dont know, but that is what others have said).

So, no, dont see a need to tear into the drive unit.

Get a replacement hub (new ones are aprox $100 online), and grease it with every wheel change and it should work fine and last a long time. Maybe you can find a rear wheel on ebay that has the hub. Others here have said that the 850G, 1000G and 1100G hubs are the same even if the wheel size is different.

 

[Doldrums]

Thanks for the info. One last question...

What kind of grease should I use? Just some wheel bearing grease... or something special?

SIDENOTE:
Time for me to find a new shop. I took this in there and had them replace the tires and told him of the noise. He replaced the bearings and said, "hmm... not sure. You probably need a new final drive". Thus, the title of this thread. If he would have done his job correctly, this never should have happened (he has done the maintainence on the bike for my brother for years).

 

[focus frenzy]

3 hours at $70 a hour?? $210 just to tell you that you need something you don't need??? dude does that come with KY or was he planning on giving it to you dry!!

it pizzes me off to no end to hear about shops raping people dry.:evil:

the grinding worries me, worn drive adapters don't normally make a grinding noise till they fail and the grinding noice is the drive splines slipping in the driven splines.
in the picture of the final drive it looks like there might be some gouges, or scratches to that area just back from the drive splines, am I seeing that right?

you said he also replaced the bearings in the wheel?

the splines on the final drive are made from a very hard grade steel, I have yet to see one with any appreciable wear, the driven splines/ hub adapter in the rear wheel on 82 and later bikes is made from to soft a metal and 30K miles is about as long as they last without the proper care, and I have heard of some that still wore out.

1979 (850) 80-81 (850-1000) bikes used a adapter that was made from a harder steel and they are good for a long long time, I have 150K miles on my 80 1000G and it is still on the original adapter with minimal wear showing.

Honda sells the best grease for lubing the splines, it is a Molly grease with a high Molly content.

 

[Doldrums]

82 1100GL Final Drive Still Making Noise

82 1100GL Final Drive Still Making Noise

Okay, I put new splines on the rear wheel and greased with Moly paste. Once I figured out how to maneuver the brake caliper and shocks so I could lift the wheel out... it wasn't too bad. After reassembly, I rolled the bike on the driveway and all was good. No more clicking / popping noise.

Or so I thought!

I then rode the bike 2 miles. Everything seemed fine. However, when I went to put the bike back in the garage, I HEARD THE NOISE AGAIN! :shock:

To give you a sense of what I am talking about. If I push the bike in neutral, it will pop about every 4 feet of roll. So, now what do I do???

I should also mention that I spun the final drive with the wheel off (100+ rotations) and never heard any noise. It seems to only happen with the wheel on and under weight (I will try it with the rear wheel off the ground tomorrow).

One guy told me to "not worry about it... the final drive is going out... but you don't repair those... you just get a replacement at a salvage yard". Sounds like bad advice... but I am at a loss. I REALLY don't want to take it to the shop that rapes people... but right now they are my only hope.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me keep this GS running and on the street! I love this bike... and aside from this... it is in EXCELLENT condition.

Thanks,

Doldrums

 

[Doldrums]

in the picture of the final drive it looks like there might be some gouges, or scratches to that area just back from the drive splines, am I seeing that right?

I think what you are seeing is actual white lithium grease that is showing very bright due to the flash. I cleaned up the splines on the final drive before reassembly... and everything looked "normal" to me. But, I could have missed something.

 

[Doldrums]

82 1100GL Final Drive - Will 850 work?

82 1100GL Final Drive - Will 850 work?

This might be putting the cart before the horse, but...

IF I end up needing a new final drive, will an 82 850's work on an 1100? I looked up part numbers on BikeBandit... and they seem to be the same.

Also, any "gotchas" to look for in swapping mine out for a used one? The Clymers says to take it to a "certified shop". Is this something that I should not attempt at home?

Thanks,

Doldrums

 

[Grandpa]

Yes, it will work. I guarantee it. You don't need any special tools or shop. Just do it.

Make sure the drive splines are in good, uniform shape. Both drive and driven splines must be in excellent condition, or one will wear out the other.

Use the Honda moly grease and ride away.

 

[focus frenzy]

To give you a sense of what I am talking about. If I push the bike in neutral, it will pop about every 4 feet of roll. So, now what do I do???
Thanks,

Doldrums

hmm 4 feet, hmm that would be around one full rotation of the wheel.
remove the caliper and push it and see if it still does it.

it is possible to carefully open up the final drive and inspect the gears and bearings in the drive.
possible that it might have a chipped or broken tooth on the ring gear.

 

[Alan Schlosser]

If it ends up you need the final drive unit, I remember Marty Dexter "Dex" screen name, bought one off eBay I believe. He found out he just needed the drive ring on the wheel. So, if he still has it, he may be willing to part with it for a fair price.

 

[Tervo]

it is possible to carefully open up the final drive and inspect the gears and bearings in the drive.
possible that it might have a chipped or broken tooth on the ring gear.

Nope, the ring gear will rotate more than once for every wheel rotation (depending on the final gear ratio, propably about three turns). If the sound happens exactly once in every turn, it must be related something with the wheel (bearings or brake parts). By the way, does it have a drum or disc brake?

 

[Alan Schlosser]

Should be a disc brake. I've got the same bike.

 

[dpep]

Put the bike on the centerstand and in neutral. Engine off, turn the rear wheel and see if you hear the noise. Engine on in neutal; the wheel will still spin a little bit; do you hear it?

 

[rustybronco]

Nope, the ring gear will rotate more than once for every wheel rotation (depending on the final gear ratio, propably about three turns). If the sound happens exactly once in every turn, it must be related something with the wheel (bearings or brake parts). By the way, does it have a drum or disc brake?

The ring gear rotates once per revolution the pinion rotates about 3 times give or take.

 

[Tervo]

The ring gear rotates once per revolution the pinion rotates about 3 times give or take.

Yes, You are right. Some misunderstanding of the terms .

 

[Doldrums]

Put the bike on the centerstand and in neutral. Engine off, turn the rear wheel and see if you hear the noise. Engine on in neutal; the wheel will still spin a little bit; do you hear it?

I did this... and never heard anything with bike on its center stand. Could not get any noise when the bike's weight was off of it. I have since removed the Final Drive and also bought a replacement off of eBay.

I am starting to tear into the final drive... but can't figure out how to get the cover off that is on the wheel side. It looks like I can buy some small screws that thread into the cover, and then pull it off with those. That is my plan at this point. If I am going in the wrong direction, please let me know.

Thanks,

Doldrums