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83 GS750ED Clutch problem

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
A

Anonymous

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This bike had a rattling noise from the clutch / tranny - retorqued the loose hub nut. In the process of reinstalling the basket cover, 3 of the 4 bolts snapped, replaced the bolts, torqued to 8 ft lbs. Reinstalled the cover, new gasket, filled with oil. I did remove the fiber and steel plates, they looked OK, reassembled in identical order. This morning the bike started up no problem, rattling noise seemed to have disappeared, with the clutch lever in, shifted to 1st, bike stalled, thied this several times, same thing. Ckecked the clutch free play, it seemed more than 4 mm. Following the factory manual to adjust, the last step was to loosen " the lock nut and adjust the slotted screw to get resistance, then back off 1/4 to 1/2 turn, retighten the lock nut" after this step, the clutch cable has totally disenguaged, there is no tension at all.
I have never ridden this bike, so the 1st gear / engine stall problem may have existed all along. What causes this, what is the remedy?
I have a new clutch cable, how difficult to install? What caused the clutch cable to disengage?
When I had the the clutch cover off the 1st time, I could see the basket cover moving.
Appreciate any help with this.

Bob
83 GS750ED
 
You may have gotten the clutch discs wedged in ther funky, did they go back together easily? Also on the edge of the slots in the basket itself, the fiber drive discs will bang against the walls of the slots causing grooves to wear where the disc tabs beat up the basket, these can lead to the drive discs seizing and not releasing, if they're not real bad they can be cleaned up with a file, aftermarket discs are known to cause this if they are thinner and more numerous than stock, as the force applied is greater on a smaller area.
 
Dave, thanks for the reply.
I dismantled the clutch, inspected the bearings, metal and fiber plates, they all look good. I will check the basket for any groves. I measured the springs, they are just under spec @ 1 3/4", and would they prevent the clutch from disengaging? Would shimming the springs help?
The plates do not appear to be burnt or warped and are in spec for thickness and claw width.
When I removed the springs and hub basket cover, I could not spin the rear tire in 1st gear. With all of all of the plates out, I could.
The manual states to check for a rubber damper plug, I could not find this, is it crucial part?
Also the manual states install the plates in prescribed order, cork plate first, I did not see a cork plate, just 8 fiber plates and the metal plates, fiber plate went in 1st.

The clutch cable control turned out to be an easy fix.

Thanks again
Bob
 
I took apart my 1983 GS750ES clutch apart, and also replaced the clutch cable, earlier this year.

I am not sure what the problem with your clutch is, but wondered if you removed the basket. When I reinstalled the basket, it took me several attempts to get it fitted all the way back in and fully meshing the basket driven gear with the engine drive gear. It wasn't readily apparent on my first few attempts that the basket hadn't seated all the way in on the shaft, and I had to rotate the basket to several different positions on the splined shaft before I found one that allowed the basket to slide in all the way.

Replacing the clutch cable is fairly straightforward. First, you should lube the cable thoroughly while you can get at it easily and hang it up for the lube to travel along the entire cable length. Second, installation will involve moving/removing the fuel tank. I would recommend threading the new cable in place as you remove the old cable. This way, you can duplicate the route and cable-tie attachment points for the new cable, as was the case for the old. Since you have been through it with the old cable, you know the proper procedures for adjustment at each end.

Simon
 
Mister T said:
Dave, thanks for the reply.
I dismantled the clutch, inspected the bearings, metal and fiber plates, they all look good. I will check the basket for any groves. I measured the springs, they are just under spec @ 1 3/4", and would they prevent the clutch from disengaging? Would shimming the springs help?
Click to expand...

You may also want to inspect the rivets that hold the basket to the driven gear, this requires the basket be removed, since the nut was loose it may be tweaked, the springs I would think are OK, I wouldn't shim, makes them even tighter

When I removed the springs and hub basket cover, I could not spin the rear tire in 1st gear. With all of all of the plates out, I could.
The manual states to check for a rubber damper plug, I could not find this, is it crucial part?
Click to expand...

That's not right, without the springs the discs should still spin somewhat, for whatever reason, they're not. the damper plug looks like a tiny rubber dowel, smaller than a pencil eraser tip, it goes in a hole in the back of the clutch basket, sometimes they're there, sometimes they're not, put it back if you got it, not sure what it helps though

Also the manual states install the plates in prescribed order, cork plate first, I did not see a cork plate, just 8 fiber plates and the metal plates, fiber plate went in 1st.
Click to expand...

You got it, they call fiber, cork, as at one time they were, probably still are somewhere, good luck
 
There are two ways to adjust the clutch. One is on the clutch lever itself - and it seems that's where you have been trying to do it. The other is on the clutch arm that is attached to the rod through the clutch cover. If you cannot get enough adjustment on the clutch lever adjustment, try moving the clutch arm to a different position on the rod so that you get enough pull. It sounds as if you are not totally dissengaging the clutch.

Don't shim the spings. Replace them if they are out of spec. They will not cause this problem however.

As was noted make sure the clutch hub is seated properly, it could be binding.

Also as noted the damper plug is located in a tiny hole on the back side of the clutch hub. It's there to reduce vibration and won't cause this problem. Nor would loose clutch hub srings.
 
Update. I inspected the driven gear basket, no grooves, it looks failry new. I'm trying to contact the original owner for bike history, the person I bought the bike from did not work on the bike.
The basket rivets are tight, springs seem to be tight (what do those springs do?) The needle bearing looks ok. In looking at the manual, it mentions a "spacer with the oil groove facing inside" for the needle bearing, I did not see a groove on the spacer.
There also seems to be extra driven and drive plates, with the pressure plate. The factory manual is not too clear on this. The Bike bandit schematic lists a total of 8 ea driven and drive plates, not sure what these additional plates are for.
I'm going to work on it later tonight, I was able to change the clutch cable this morning.
I stopped at the local Harley - Suzuki dealer, I was going to pick up new springs, they were not in stock.

Thanks for tips and suggestions, I'll let you all know how this goes.

Bob
 
The springs in the back of the clutch basket are to absorb shock when the clutch is engaged. If loose they can rattle - this isn't your problem.

Too many plates could cause this problem as there would not be room for the clutch to disengage. Did this clutch ever function properly? If not, maybe someone rebuilt it incorrectly. Try removing the extra plates and see if this fixes your problem. No harm will be done if it doesn't. The worst thing that can happen is that the clutch will slip. If that happens replace the plates.

In your first post you mentioned that the clutch had too much freeplay. The first thing I would do is adjust ALL of the freeplay out of the lever. Then see if the clutch disengages.
 
Update 2. Again I appreciate the responses on this problem. I have never ridden this bike, when I bought it, the brakes were frozen against the rotors, it took 3 of us to roll it up on ramp into the truck. So I'm not sure if this problem existed at that time.
Tonight I removed the extra plates, re assembled and still same problem. Removed as much free play as possible, still no change.
Then I disassembled the pressure cover and removed the left side cover, to see the push rod. I reassembled the pressure plate cover, springs, etc. then put the left cover on, still no good. As you suggested, I removed all free play, still no good.
I put all of the plates back in, removed the left cover, installed the pressure cover, reinstalled the left cover. Now when I engage the clutch, I can see all of the fiber plates moving in and out.
The bike is on the center stand, normally on a working clutch, how easy is it to move the rear wheel with the clutch disengaged? In neutral it spins freely, should this be the same with the clutch disengaged? I figure there must be some drag with the clutch disengaged; I was going to try and roll the bike with the clutch in and out to see if there is a difference.

Bob
 
Bob, I haven't had a chance to think about your problem (working late at my computer :cry: ) but I have remembered that I downloaded the "exploded" parts diagram for the 1983 GS750E/Es clutch from BikeBandit several months ago. As I recall, there may be several diagrams on the site, but only one was correct. If you would like me to e-mail you the diagram (a TIFF file), send me a PM with your e-mail address.

Also, according to the diagram, there should be 8 drive plates and 8 driven plates........I remember checking these numbers on my bike and they were correct.

Simon Waters

P.S. Although there is a little drag from cold oil with the clutch lever pulled in (and the bike in gear), it is minimal. There should be very little difference when compared with the transmission in neutral, and you should be able to push the bike easily.......provided you are not too tired from working on the clutch so hard. :wink:
 
Simon - correct on the pushing part, but I have never tried to spin the rear wheel manually with the clutch pulled in so I have no idea of the force required.

I'm in Dallas and not near the bike or I would test it for you right now.
 
Mister T said:
....The bike is on the center stand, normally on a working clutch, how easy is it to move the rear wheel with the clutch disengaged? In neutral it spins freely, should this be the same with the clutch disengaged? I figure there must be some drag with the clutch disengaged; I was going to try and roll the bike with the clutch in and out to see if there is a difference.

Bob
Click to expand...
Bob, I checked this today on my 1983 GS750ES, both before and after going for a ride. The short answer is that it was a lot harder than I thought it would be to turn the wheel by hand in first gear with the clutch disengaged. With a cold engine (i.e. cold oil), left hand pulling in the clutch, I could barely get enough purchase with my right hand on the tire to turn it....turning it in the reverse direction was easier because of hand position, but still pretty "stiff". With hot engine/oil, it was significantly easier but there was still appreciable drag in the clutch. Regardless of temperature, there was a big difference from the relatively easy turning with the bike in neutral.

Simon
 
Thanks for the info Simon. Here is another tidbit to factor in. If the clutch is dry, it will not slip as easily as when it is wet (or filled with oil).
 
Update 3. Reassembled the clutch plates, installed the 1st metal plate as part of the wave washer / ring stopper assy. This gave me a count of 8 driven and 8 drive plates, put it together, filled with oil, let it run to warm up and tweaked the clutch adjustment, while on the center stand.
Brought it out to test ride, seemed to be working, except the clutch was slipping severely, I could not adjust this out, so........
I brought it back in, removed the cover and cover plate, installed driven plate 9 and drive plate 9, reassembled, brought it back out, clutch is not slipping, but it is difficult to locate neutral and the clutch feels like it is not completely disengaging, in 1st, with clutch pulled in, bike still wants to creep ahead a little, trying to adjust this out. The clutch is now configured as when I first disassembled it. I saw a recent post that mentioned a problem finding neutral, not sure if problem is related.
 
If it's trying to move slightly when the clutch is pulled in, then it's going to be hard to find neutral.

Did you measure the thickness of the drive and driven plates? They should fall within the Suzuki specs. Maybe someone added more plates to make up for some worn ones? This is a tough one.

When you finally get this figured out, you will be our resident clutch expert. 8)
 
I'm learning a lot about clutches in the process. What is the best or most accurate method to check engine oil level? On the side stand or center stand, after the engine has run for a while or cold.

I'm wondering if this problem is related to oil level. When I filled the bike (it was completely drained), it was on center stand and cold, oil was just slightly more than 1/2 way between the marks on the sight window.
Should the oil be at the high mark? When the engine is cold? or Hot?
I?m using oil from the dealer, Spectrol 10W40, any particular brand that might work better than others?

I measured the plates, they seemed to be in spec, but it is very possible that additional plates were added to compensate for a problem. The slippage with the 8 and 8 combo, makes me think they are worn.

Thanks

Bob
 
Measure the oil on the center stand or balance straight up. It sounds as if your oil level is right and the oil you are using is fine as long as there are no additives like moly.
 
Mister T,

There were extra plate kits made for most bikes. That's probably what you have.
 
When you checked the friction/steel plates for thickness, did you set the discs on a flat glass peice to make sure they were not warped? :twisted:
 
Mister T said:
Update 3. Reassembled the clutch plates, installed the 1st metal plate as part of the wave washer / ring stopper assy. This gave me a count of 8 driven and 8 drive plates, put it together, filled with oil, let it run to warm up and tweaked the clutch adjustment, while on the center stand.
Click to expand...
Bob, the parts diagram shows a "wave washer seat" behind the wave washer and stopper ring......did you check to see if you have the "seat"? When I took my 1983 GS750ES clutch apart, I know I had only 8 drive and 8 driven plates outboard of the ring stopper.

You might also consider sending Hap Call a PM.........he has taken his GS1100E's clutch apart more than I've had hot dinners. :D

Simon
 
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