83GS550E Bigger Pilot Jets to cure no idle ?

[p_s]

Does the idle slowly move around or do you hear a hesitation and a choppy idle? If so, try pulling the headlight fuse and see if it changes. I don't think this is your problem but I had a sticky idle on my 550ES in May that turned out to be the slides getting stuck. Do they close smoothly on their own?

 

[GQROD]

Does the idle slowly move around or do you hear a hesitation and a choppy idle? If so, try pulling the headlight fuse and see if it changes. I don't think this is your problem but I had a sticky idle on my 550ES in May that turned out to be the slides getting stuck. Do they close smoothly on their own?

Yes the slides move freely. I did think of this but when i took them apart i could move them easily and they came right back down and i'm not aware of a lubricant for tthe slides. I know wd40 won't work it makes teh slides get stuck in open position, unless a dry lubricant with graphite would do the trick but i have not tried it.

The idle actually goes up and down slowly meaning it stays at a given rpm then steadly goes up stays there then goes back down to a low of about 700 rpm.

I did not test it without the headlamp fuse in but this makes a lot of sense since the battery would be drained by the headlamp during idle if it's not being charged at this slow rpm.

1- Well i took out the plugs and they are all white, obviously lean.

2-Took the bike out for another spin. Idles high at 2000 at stop signs, had to turn the idle speed down at the stop sign.

3-Since the plugs are lean i will be going to bigger pilots as mentioned and see if this solves the problem along with testing the charging system, but at least it starts right away now and will idle well enough to do plug chops under load.

I will keep everyone posted, thanks again for your help.

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

GQROD,

Haven't seen an update in a while. What's the scoop? Hopefully the lack of posting means you're up and running and riding too much to have time to post...?

 

[Carter Turk]

Could your float height setting be too lean?

 

[GQROD]

Thanks for the interest !

I have not posted because i have had the #37.5 pilot jets soaking in carb dip they were all blocked so i want to make sure the inside crud is soft enough to come out without damaging the inside diameter.

So far it starts right away with new choke cable, and will warm up fine.

However it will still have a high idle as i have run it a couple of times around the block.

Constant idle speed adjustment is still necessary and it will not hold a steady idle under 2000 rpm for long before it steadily dies.

I have read here and on other maufacturer sites that this condition may indeed be pilot jets are too small so i'm going to install the #37.5's then colortune to see if this helps. I may have to order #40 jets if this is still too lean though.

I still have to check the charging system just could not find my multi-meter.

I will keep everyone posted when i have results that show some progress,
thanks again.

Float height was set at 20.5mm using vernier calipers, i thought about this but i did not want to mess with the float heights. When i set the height it did seem to be perfect within factory specs which was higher than they originally were. Fuel flow to bowls is excellent due to new pet cock, so i wanted to try the jets first then if this fails try the float height adjustment.

 

[doctorgonzo]

My wandering idle has reappeared after I pulled carbs to replace a body. I think mine is sync, very possible yours is too. Last time I snyced it cured this issue.

 

[tone]

A couple of things come to mind, i'm assuming the bike is stock here so correct me if i'm wrong

most bikes will run slightly lean at tickover
i've experianced this particularly on us spec bikes with the emission control bull attached, binning any such rubbish & setting the carbs to uk spec improves the running enormously
colourtune does not give a true reading on the new fuels
guessing at pilot jet sizes will lead you into a world of problems

to clarify that last statment swapping pilots from stock is for racers where a nice even tickover or clean transition on to mains is not important, ive run highly tuned road bikes with major mods to induction & exhaust & never needed to swap them yet

air leak & either worn emulsion tubes or needles is where i'd start to look also check the float heights & for damaged diaphrams or worn slides, are the carb vent tubes still present ?

hope it helps

 

[GQROD]

A couple of things come to mind, i'm assuming the bike is stock here so correct me if i'm wrong

most bikes will run slightly lean at tickover
i've experianced this particularly on us spec bikes with the emission control bull attached, binning any such rubbish & setting the carbs to uk spec improves the running enormously
colourtune does not give a true reading on the new fuels
guessing at pilot jet sizes will lead you into a world of problems

to clarify that last statment swapping pilots from stock is for racers where a nice even tickover or clean transition on to mains is not important, ive run highly tuned road bikes with major mods to induction & exhaust & never needed to swap them yet

air leak & either worn emulsion tubes or needles is where i'd start to look also check the float heights & for damaged diaphrams or worn slides, are the carb vent tubes still present ?

hope it helps

Thanks for the advice, yes bike, carbs,airbox,exhaust all stock, diaphrams are all good no holes, slides have very light vertical scuff marks but move freely.

1-I synced the carbs with a morgan carbtune when i first put them on after the rebuild should they be synced again?

1a-You are correct about the need to worry about a smooth transition as this thought crossed my mind.

2-Carbs rebuilt to stock specs which for usa are leaner than most countries which is why i considered going up one size on the pilots.

3-No air leaks, installed oem new orings, carb vent tubes ( hoses?) still present. well it has one the other is missing should it have a hose? not shown in factory manual.

4-I checked the emulsion tubes and needles when i pulled the carbs and did not notice an " out of round " situation on the tubes and needles were stock and in good shape, not bent or anything.

5-In response to Carter Turk's suggestion( good point by the way)-Would anyone/everyone agree that i should change the float height before changing the pilot jets? Also why does the float height change the mixture? i thought the float height was merely for fuel level in the bowls?

thanks

 

[GQROD]

Update on pilot jet installation.

Update on pilot jet installation.

SHE FINALLY IDLES !!!! though not as long as i'd like......

1-Installed #37.5 Pilot jets an increase over the #35's that were stock spec.

2-Finally was able to set the idle at 1100 rpm, idled for almost an hour with only a slight lumpiness of +/- 100 rpm.

2a-NO MORE high idle hanging up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, comes right back down to 1100-1200 rpm idle speed no matter how many throttle blips !!

3-Mixture screws were adjusted two more turns out from 1 1/2 originally set with color tune on cylinders 1 and 2, cyls 3 and 4 show richer than than 1&2.

4-This time i set the mix screws just reading the plugs during idle, they are finally a light tan to dark brown i'm still fiddling with the mixtures and adjusting for a richer mixture as needed, re-setting the idle speed as i went.

5-Transition is smooth from idle to WOT !!

6-However-it does still die at stops after a 20 min high speed run, headlight on. I have not tested the charging system yet but i believe now that the charging system may be faulty and this is leading to the bike dying at stops.

7-I think the battery is being drained, while idling for almost and hour the engine died and there was not enough juice to start the bike, so this is the next task.

7a At what rpm exactly does the stator start to charge the battery?????

7b-Also i started to hear a RATTLING noise coming from the lower left side of the engine, after about 10-15 mins while it was already hot it stopped then returned after a few minutes what is this ???????

8-Thanks again everyone for your help and suggestions i'll keep you posted.

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

Right on...congrats!

I assume that if you're idling the bike for long periods of time (an hour? yikes!), that you've got a fan pushing cool air over the engine? If not, I think that you want to do so. After an hour, the lack of air cooling could allow damaging levels of heat to build up.

Regarding charging at idle: I don't know for sure, but I've always been under the impressiong that most bikes, unlike most cars, do NOT charge at idle. Therefore, I'm not at all surprised that after an hour of idling the battery was spent. That said, I don't know what RPM these bikes start to generate enough juice to start recharging the battery. Of course, it's common knowledge around here that the charging systems on these bikes are their achilles heel to begin with even before accounting for the troubles that can come with the sheer age of the systems.

As far as your rattle sounds goes, I have no specific ideas on that one. Hopefully somebody will pipe up with some ideas.

Sounds like you've still got some work ahead of you, but I'm glad that you're making progress and you can now at least take the bike out for some extended test (joy?) riding.

 

[GQROD]

Thanks Melodic the jets from the carbs really helped!! yes definetly have a box fan on high while the bike is running.

I took it out for high speed runs at 3000 rpm average to see if the battery would charge but it did not seem to make a difference and it took three hours to re-charge after only a 20min run so checking the charging system is next. I was just surprised that it died at stops because it was running so good.

I'm thinking the battery is not charging and this may be why it's dying, anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[GQROD]

Update on charging system.

Update on charging system.

I tested the new battery with a multi meter.

1-At idle showed 13.5 volts.

2-At 3000 rpm after 5 min warm up showed 10.5 volts

3- Did not show increase in voltage at 3000 rpm, lights did not get brighter.

4-I will start checking the R/R then the stator next and see if this cures the condition of engine dying at stops.

5-Bike runs great otherwise and is consistent in starting and idle...finally !

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

75VAC at 5000 RPM is the no load spec on the Alternator.

13.5 -15.5 VDC should be the output at 5000 RPM.

Not sure what the output curve would be but the bike is running off battery at lower RPM. WIth a low battery you can see where it the charger starts taking over at about 3000 RPM.

You did doenaload the manual, YES?

 

[GQROD]

I have a manual yes i just wanted to post what i had so far. I will be testing the rest of the charging system to see where i am at and see what is suspect. Thanks for the specs and your advice i will keep you posted.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

75VAC at 5000 RPM is the no load spec on the Alternator.

13.5 -15.5 VDC should be the output at 5000 RPM.

Not sure what the output curve would be but the bike is running off battery at lower RPM. WIth a low battery you can see where it the charger starts taking over at about 3000 RPM.

You did doenaload the manual, YES?

er um see by checking to look at the old headlight putput I mean

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

I tested the new battery with a multi meter.

1-At idle showed 13.5 volts.

2-At 3000 rpm after 5 min warm up showed 10.5 volts

3- Did not show increase in voltage at 3000 rpm, lights did not get brighter.

4-I will start checking the R/R then the stator next and see if this cures the condition of engine dying at stops.

5-Bike runs great otherwise and is consistent in starting and idle...finally !

Wow. So that voltage is dropping as you increase the RPM from idle? Well, I guess that pretty much shows a problem with the charging system. Sounds like you've got a bonfide electrical issue to go with you fuel delivery/carb issue (which sounds pretty well resolved). Boy, you definitely got hold of a GS in need of your assistance, didn't ya? Well, at least once you're done, you'll know that bike better than the guys that built it. Look at it as "bonding time" for you and your bike.

 

[GQROD]

er um see by checking to look at the old headlight putput I mean

You mean the thing a muh bob next to the wactha muh call it? yes i noticed it had an inverse fractional electron dispersal which showed as an anomoly during my initial scan-lol

 

[GQROD]

Wow. So that voltage is dropping as you increase the RPM from idle? Well, I guess that pretty much shows a problem with the charging system. Sounds like you've got a bonfide electrical issue to go with you fuel delivery/carb issue (which sounds pretty well resolved). Boy, you definitely got hold of a GS in need of your assistance, didn't ya? Well, at least once you're done, you'll know that bike better than the guys that built it. Look at it as "bonding time" for you and your bike.

Thanks yes i have gotten to know this bike quite well, the PO may have meant well when he thought dropping the bike over and over again would fix the issues but it didn't and cried out for me to buy it and save it. I could have gotten a bike in better shape perhaps for less money but it would not have taught me anything.

1-I figure with another 2 volts dropping from resistance in the harness it may only have 9 volts at the coils so i will check everything but electrical problems are far easier to figure out than carb ones that's for sure!

2-Well i'm off, gotta get my multimeter, 6-pack of beer and a ball peen hammer before the tropical storm/hurricane hits! I'l keep you posted ! and thanks for the kind words and support this site is great i could not have gotten this far without all your help !!

 

[Roger P.]

I'd check your valve clearances as well. Adjusting my valves did a world of good for my idle and cold running issues.

 

[GQROD]

I'd check your valve clearances as well. Adjusting my valves did a world of good for my idle and cold running issues.

You are right that is the first thing i did and glad i did it first i would have hated to to go back into the valve train in bewtween carb removal and tuning. I adjusted them to .13mm the highest allowed and the vibration is gone that i originally felt when i first go tthe bike.