A Broken Valve Shim and It's Aftermath

[Sandy]

If you got the one off ebay it's from a very reputable member here. Just a hint, but if he's got the time and you don't want to refresh the head youself he'll be able to do it for you for probably a decent price. Same user name here as his ebay name.

 

[JTGS850GL]

Wow, didn't notice that it was chef's sale. Ya, Bill is a great guy with a lot of knowledge. Trust him to do what is needed to make your transaction a smooth one.

 

[Chris G]

The cam cap/bearing does not appear to be seated against the head. Could have been the cause or could have been the result.

Yes I spotted that on the Photobucket pics, that's bad news hope your able to fix it.

 

[jrobert94]

If you got the one off ebay it's from a very reputable member here. Just a hint, but if he's got the time and you don't want to refresh the head youself he'll be able to do it for you for probably a decent price. Same user name here as his ebay name.

Thanks for pointing that out. I just PM'd him.

While you're at it, you may want to consider doing some additional work on that head for the long haul. I'd suggest replacing the valve stem seals along with cleaning and lapping the valves. Will add years to the life of your bike.

Keep in mind that once the head is removed you'll need to go ahead and replace the base gasket and the head gasket as a minimum. In most cases the base gasket will begin to leak if the head is unloaded and removed. Only get OEM base gasket and use either OEM or Cometic head gasket.

While you're at it you can replace the rings and hone the cylinders. While there....

You get the idea?

Yeah i get what you're saying. I had ordered the gaskets from Z1 at the same time as the head, and like i said i'm hoping Chef can refresh the head before he ships it. Rings and hone, though, is something i had not thought of. I guess i'll get it all apart and check on that.

I see in the service manual that you're supposed to use a special molybdenum disulfide lubricant on the cam journals. Where would i get this? I didn't see it on Z1.

 

[JTGS850GL]

Make sure the head and base gasket you ordered are NOT aftermarket. The only aftermarket head gasket I'd consider is from Cometic. Base gasket must be OEM Suzuki only.

 

[TeamDar]

Now, I would like to address the cause, if I may. :-k

Were you using the "official" bucket-depressing tool to change your shims?

If so, did it ever slip off the side, allowing the shim to slam up to the cam?

Any chance the shim was not fully seated when it slamed up?

Even simply slamming against the cam can crack the shim. Running the engine just spit out the pieces.

I was a bit luckier with mine. The shim was not fully seated when the tool slipped off the bucket.

That is why I use the "zip-tie method" for holding the valve open. :encouragement:

.

That is not a OEM Suzuki shim. Has anyone shattered a genuine Suzuki shim from the tappet depressing tool causing the shim to "slam" into the cam lobe? Just curious.

 

[jrobert94]

Make sure the head and base gasket you ordered are NOT aftermarket. The only aftermarket head gasket I'd consider is from Cometic. Base gasket must be OEM Suzuki only.

I ordered the only options from z1. It doesn't show a brand so can i assume it's OEM?

 

[JTGS850GL]

Nope, not OEM. Not for the price they're charging. Z1 is a great company and a strong supporter of this site, but I would not buy their head and base gaskets. $4.90 for a base gasket????? I believe that you can call them and they can get the OEM gaskets for you but be prepared to pay close to $20 for the base gasket and another $80 for the head gasket. There are also some rubber pieces that need to purchased as well.

 

[Sandy]

That is not a OEM Suzuki shim. Has anyone shattered a genuine Suzuki shim from the tappet depressing tool causing the shim to "slam" into the cam lobe? Just curious.

Not that I know of. Never heard it being problem. The guy I bought my GS from 22 years ago is a Suzuki mechanic, still is too. He's never heard of it either. Neither have the guys at Modern in Vancouver and they've been fixing GSs since they came out. Volkwagen, Yamaha and Kawasaki use the same system too. Not saying it can't happen but broken shims have to be a weird anomoly of some sort.

 

[jrobert94]

Nope, not OEM. Not for the price they're charging. Z1 is a great company and a strong supporter of this site, but I would not buy their head and base gaskets. $4.90 for a base gasket????? I believe that you can call them and they can get the OEM gaskets for you but be prepared to pay close to $20 for the base gasket and another $80 for the head gasket. There are also some rubber pieces that need to purchased as well.

Wow, that's news to me. I've never really worried about the brand of a gasket. If it seals up, it's good and if it doesn't, it's not. What's the difference? Not to sound like a smartass, that's just been the way it is since i started wrenching. What other rubber bits would i need? just the O rings for the oil passages at the base, right? Also are there any good suppliers that stock the proper head/base gaskets regularly?

 

[JTGS850GL]

The problem is that most aftermarket gaskets on a GS engine DON'T seal up. Lots of history on leaking base and head gaskets. This isn't your average Chevy V8. Not as many bikes still around and very few quality vendors making parts for our bikes.

Lots of online OEM Suzuki parts vendors. This is one I use but do your research and you'll find many others.

http://www.gssuzuki.com/fiche_select1.asp?cat=Motorcycles&mfg=Suzuki

Price shop OEM and you will find differences.

 

[Steve]

That is not a OEM Suzuki shim. Has anyone shattered a genuine Suzuki shim from the tappet depressing tool causing the shim to "slam" into the cam lobe? Just curious.

I probably should have included a few more details, but that's not even an aftermarket Suzuki shim.

That is a Kawasaki shim, not sure if it's OEM or aftermarket. However, the principle of shim changing is the same. The lifter tool slipped off the side of the bucket when the shim was not quite in place. The shim was straddling the lip on one side of the bucket and the cam just punched the shim into the space below.

Not quite positive if the shim would be damaged if it slammed into the cam while fully-supported (and fully-seated) by the bucket, but because they are fully hardened, they are rather brittle. They might be saved by the fact that there would actually be no contact, as long as there was the specified 0.03-0.08mm of clearance, but I can guarantee that they break if one side is up on the side of the bucket.

.

 

[jrobert94]

The problem is that most aftermarket gaskets on a GS engine DON'T seal up. Lots of history on leaking base and head gaskets. This isn't your average Chevy V8. Not as many bikes still around and very few quality vendors making parts for our bikes.

Lots of online OEM Suzuki parts vendors. This is one I use but do your research and you'll find many others.

http://www.gssuzuki.com/fiche_select1.asp?cat=Motorcycles&mfg=Suzuki

Price shop OEM and you will find differences.

Interesting, good to know. I cancelled that z1 order (or at least i hope it got cancelled in time) and ordered them all from G&S.

I talked to Chef, and he is cleaning the head, lapping the valves and doing the seals for me before sending it out. I got it all apart today and honed the cylinders. My rings look fine and measure up fine, surprisingly enough, but i'm going to go ahead and replace them anyway. One of the 6mm bolts (10mm head) that helps hold the head on was seized and snapped right flush with the bottom of the recess it sits in in the cylinder block, and then to make things worse i snapped an easy out (the square kind) in there, so i'll be having a fun time tomorrow getting that out of there.

 

[tatu]

Interesting, good to know. I cancelled that z1 order (or at least i hope it got cancelled in time) and ordered them all from G&S.

I talked to Chef, and he is cleaning the head, lapping the valves and doing the seals for me before sending it out. I got it all apart today and honed the cylinders. My rings look fine and measure up fine, surprisingly enough, but i'm going to go ahead and replace them anyway. One of the 6mm bolts (10mm head) that helps hold the head on was seized and snapped right flush with the bottom of the recess it sits in in the cylinder block, and then to make things worse i snapped an easy out (the square kind) in there, so i'll be having a fun time tomorrow getting that out of there.

If Chef is doing that head work why are you ordering shims now? Everything will have changed by the time you get it back.

 

[blowerbike]

If Chef is doing that head work why are you ordering shims now? Everything will have changed by the time you get it back.

in a perfect world you could get bill to bench shim it and all you would have to do is the reassembly.
makes a person go hmmmmmmmmm

 

[jrobert94]

If Chef is doing that head work why are you ordering shims now? Everything will have changed by the time you get it back.

I didn't say anything about shims. If you're referring to the Z1/G&S order, that was for gaskets.

 

[tatu]

in a perfect world you could get bill to bench shim it and all you would have to do is the reassembly.
makes a person go hmmmmmmmmm

Of course

 

[Steve]

Interesting, good to know. I cancelled that z1 order (or at least i hope it got cancelled in time) and ordered them all from G&S.

Good luck with G&S. :-k

Many of us used to use them, and I would promote them any chance that I got, but they have screwed a few of us, so we no longer advise their services. Yes, they do have the cheapest prices on most items, and the shipping charges are on the fair side, but the (poor, lack of) service really offsets that.

There are a few personal favorites, but I think the one that most of us are in favor of at the moment is Parts Outlaw. Overall, their prices are only a little higher than G&S, but they do have one practice that I don't care for. Any of the really inexpensive pieces get a bit spendy. They have a minimum price of $2.49, so anything that might cost 89 cents will cost you 2.49, instead. If you are only ordering a couple of these items as part of a larger order, the extra couple of dollars will not matter much, but I recently placed an order with a BUNCH of them, and the order was mostly made up of all those small parts. I compared prices with G&S, the difference was over $20. I called Parts Outlaw and expressed my concern and my desire to NOT have to place an order with G&S. They asked for my shopping list (which I already had on a spreadsheet for comparison) and I provided it. A few hours later, they called to say they would match G&S's prices, would I like to place the order now? The answer was, of course, an overwhelming YES!!

By they way, Parts Outlaw has a flat-rate shipping charge of $9.99, which isn't all that bad, but if you look for the promo box on the order page and enter the word BANG, you get free shipping. This hidden promo has been going for at least a couple of years, I have used it several times.

.

 

[ged]

I test rode it first and travelled about 6 klms. Then I told the son to have a ride and see what he thought. Got a phone call from son..........no I thought are you all right did you drop it? Story from son was carbs still playing up, he said he was going about 130klm/hr when bike rear wheel locked up, he then pulled clutch in and came to a stop. Tried to start bike wouldnt turn over. So I hooked the trailer on and collected bike, engine was seized would not turn over, we were both devastated. I didnt take too many photos of pulling it down to find the cause because how upset we were. When we took the valve cover off we found number 3 intake valve shim shattered. All the valve shim gaps were in spec, this shim was an aftermarket shim all the other shims were the old original suzuki looking shims. This one was a brand new aftermarket shim I had purchased off Z1 or a company in Aus that Pete had told me about. Cannot be sure which one. Now I have found another post about a shattered shim on this forum also an aftermarket.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=219760




This was the issue with my broken shim, still unclear why it shattered, but it can happen, not a very nice feeling.

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[JTGS850GL]

Not a good thing to hear. I surely hope that there isn't a new issue with aftermarket shims showing up.