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Advancer- I'm desperate!

Jethro

Jethro

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Can someone please explain to me how the signal advancer works on my 81 1100EX? Specifically, there are two little springs attached to arms that use centrifrugal (sp?) force and move outward from the crankshaft. Does anyone know at what RPM these should spin outward? Here is the deal, one of these springs broke, so I found a simialer size and Mickey Moused it into working, but the bike runs crappy at the low rpms (although it idles beauty). How do these affect the timing?

Dose anyone have a spare spring kicking around? If I buy a Dyna setup, will it replace this signal advancer? I'm going on the Maine ride this weekend for about 750 miles- nothing like leaving this stuff till the last minute. :(
 
ignition timing

ignition timing

Hello,
well I can speak for the timing of my gs650 katana but in principle all things like this are the same.
I can't rememebr how the original system works..I've forgotten but a dyna system replacement is as follows:
The central piece (forgot the name) has a magnet on, which passes two sensors as the crank rotates one sensor does cylinders 1 &4 the other 2 &3. As it passes each sensor an electrical pulse is generated (as the magnet is passing a small coil) this pulse is used to shut on and off the 12v low tension to the coils, which generates the very high voltage for the spark. In a dyna system it is more than just coils as they do away with your igniter unit (I can tell you a REALLY GOOD IDEA on such old bikes), and the tiny pulse is amplified by solid state electronics held within the 'sensors'.
Anyway as you increase the revs on the engine, the TIME at which you must make the spark needs to be earlier and earlier to the TDC (top dead centre), this is termed ADVANCING the ignition. The reason is simply that the RATE at which the fuel air mix burns is CONSTANT whilst the time interval at which the piston travels x distance is becoming shorter, hence the need to make the spark earlier. In order to do this on our gs's there are two arms on the mechanical advancing system which as they fly out due to centrefugal (actually centripetal) force they move a cam on which the (central piece with the magnet whose name I have forgotten) physically rotates, hence advancing the ignition. The important thing here for you is that the springs regulate the amount the weighted arms fly out at all revs and hence are VERY IMPORTANT. I would not advise a bodge here at all and think you are gonna have to buy a new unit with the arms on unless you can buy two genuine new springs from Suzuki. Save that you could get one second hand. I'm sure many people on this forum may have better plans or know of exact spring replacements, but I don't know of any.
Incidently the dyna system is very good indeed! For the money I have been most impressed and its simply a matter of throwing the old stuff away and bolting back in the new bits (an setting the timing right). I had very few problems indeed. If you have your old ignitor unit it WILL die soon-ish and Suzuki want both your arms and perhaps a leg or two for a new one (which jsut isn't worth having).
 
I haven't taken the cover off yet, but does an 80 550 have the mechanical advancer on it? If so, I have one at my place you can have.
 
Thanks for the info grayam, but let me just make sure I understand correctly... The Dyna Unit will replace the advancer itself? I have seen pictures of the Dyna units and they just look like the plate that goes on top of the whole thing- is the ignition timing advanced electronically with the Dyna? If so I'm getting one today!

Thanks!
 
It depends on model, I think Dyna III and Dyna S both use the mechanical advance, but the Dyna 2000 and Dyna 4000 do not.
 
The dyna uses the original advance Chances are the 550 uses the same springs anything 82? or older even a points system will have a spring you can use
 
thats absolutely right, you still need the original advancer. All that gets replaced is the original plate holding the 'pickups' and the central piece with a magnet on. The piece with the magnet on is what goes onto your mechanical advancer - so you're still stuck with the same problem. Like I said though, you also get to throw away your ignitor unit (something you should celebrate.......)
 
have a look at
http://www.dynaonline.com
If you need to ask them questions they are very helpful

I meant to say I was speaking on behalf of the dyna s system only. And as others have said I think this applies to the dyna III also but not to the dyna 2000 (but they are a LOT more cash, but i reckon really good). I could never justify the costs of the dyna 2000 on my heap.........
 
The original advance unit should fully advance by about 2350 revs, staying at idle advance below 1500 revs. If you use the wrong spring and it advances too fast, the bike will not feel right. I went through this recently when I had a stuck advancer. Make sure it moves freely and is not sticking..how does it look under a timing light? This will tell you what it is actually doing

I have a spare mechanical advance unit, bu as I am in Australia this may not help!
 
I have a Dyna 2000 ignition on my 1150E and it is worth every cent. Programmable ignition curves for retard and advance, end point settings, duration, ignition cut out for drag strip, retard curves, test functions and a base plate and rotor graduated in degrees. I cant say enough good things about it. :-) N I C E !!!!!

Earl

grayam said:
I meant to say I was speaking on behalf of the dyna s system only. And as others have said I think this applies to the dyna III also but not to the dyna 2000 (but they are a LOT more cash, but i reckon really good). I could never justify the costs of the dyna 2000 on my heap.........
Click to expand...
 
Earl,

I'm going to be switching over to a schnitz box and puting in a billet rotor. I'm going to use the box to adjust the timing curve. I was wondering where you have your ignition advance curve set at. How many degrees advance at idle? How many degrees at full advance and at what RPM is full advance. What advance is your bike set at when you start it and is that the same advance for idle.
Thanks,
 
Hey Rosco

Ignition advance at startup is 0 deg. Advance at idle (1200 rpm) is 12 deg. Between 1200 rpm and 4500 rpm ignition timing advances 20 more degrees and at 4500 rpm, it is at full advance of 32 deg.


Earl


rosco15 said:
Earl,

I'm going to be switching over to a schnitz box and puting in a billet rotor. I'm going to use the box to adjust the timing curve. I was wondering where you have your ignition advance curve set at. How many degrees advance at idle? How many degrees at full advance and at what RPM is full advance. What advance is your bike set at when you start it and is that the same advance for idle.
Thanks,
Click to expand...
 
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