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An issue I haven't run in to before.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dark Jedi
  • Start date Start date
D

Dark Jedi

Guest
When starting the bike, it cranks real slow like a dead battery. However, it does so with a fully charged battery, while hooked to the charger, or even on the new battery. (I knew better, but blew $40 to prove it to myself.)

So, where to start? Loose ground?

82 GS1100E.
 
Poor electrical contact at starter solenoid? Or starter motor brushes worn/dirty?
 
Reading search results (RTFM before I post? And break tradition??) and seeing some great suggestions in past issues like this. All suggestions welcome, I am tearing in to it with gusto tomorrow or Thursday.
 
If while cranking the battery volts stay high, near 12, than you have poor connection, high resistance, bad brushes (in starter), wiring, etc. If while cranking, battery volts drop below 10, then you have a bad starter. OR, The other possible consideration, is for some reason the engine is very difficult to turn over, like (seize, still in gear, mechanical jam, hydrostatic lock, etc. That too will drag battery voltage low as the starter has to work very hard and requires lots of battery power.
 
you need to do a voltage drop test.
to do it you need three to four hands so you will need to recruit a helper.

take your multi meter test leads and put the + one to the battery + post bolt and the - probe goes to the starter + post. sitting still you will get battery voltage but you have helper crank the engine over (or hold test probes) and look at what the meter shows when cranking.
0 volts would be perfect but ain't going to happen. you want as low a number as possible .5 volts drop would be fine.

you can then put the +probe to the output from the starter solenoid and the - probe to the starter post and see what the drop is across the starter cable.

next + on the battery side of the solenoid and the - on the starter side of the solenoid.
last is + to battery + and - to battery side of starter solenoid.

also put the +probe to the ground cable at the engine case and the - probe to the battery ground, to test voltage drop across the ground cable. you need to crank the engine over on each of these test.

this will allow you to find weak spots in the main cables and solenoid.

another item is the battery, what kind is it? I have found the cheep third world batteries they sell at most auto parts places and wally world have to much internal resistance and don't give up enough cranking power.
 
Check the resistance in your cables. If you have a cable that is going bad (or has gone bad) the resistance will be high. High resistance equals a greater then average voltage drop across the line. If the line is causing excess voltage drop do to high ohms then there will be less voltage getting to the starter.

Also check your ground connection with your multimeter. If you have a high ohms ground connection then your electrical parts wont work properly.
 
Sounds like bad brushes, but always better to go through the testing procedures already mentioned to verify it. On my bike I had a slow cranker from the get-go, but after rebuilding the starter (for under $50) the bike starts great!

Good Luck!
 
Just wondering if your cam chain tensioner is locked, not allowing the cam chain to rotate freely?

Just a "out-of-box" thought.

What happens when you start the bike using jumper cables from a non-running car battery?? Does it still start slow?
 
hikermikem said:
Just wondering if your cam chain tensioner is locked, not allowing the cam chain to rotate freely?

Just a "out-of-box" thought.

What happens when you start the bike using jumper cables from a non-running car battery?? Does it still start slow?
Click to expand...

Starting it with the jumper boost from my charger changes nothing. I will try a battery today.
 
Dark Jedi said:
Starting it with the jumper boost from my charger changes nothing. I will try a battery today.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't start it with the jumper boost from your charger.

The OEM rectifier/regulator is apparently liable to be damaged by getting a jump start from a running car, because it boosts the voltage too high which damages internal components of the R/R.

A boost jumper may do the same. Or it may not.

Do you feel lucky today ...
 
It appears to have been corrosion on the positive lead off the battery, where it hooks in to the doohickey (can't remember it's name). Cleaned up, starts like a champ now!
 
Hmm, not the end of it. Same issue this morning. Gonna trace all the main leads all the way out this evening. I'll let y'all know what I find.
 
Electrical problems are not usually "visual".
Embellishment on my earlier post. Connect the volt meter to the hard lugs of the battery. Not the screw head, nut, or wire.

If while cranking the battery volts stay high, near 12, than you have poor connection, high resistance, bad brushes (in starter), wiring, etc. (the battery "juice" can't get to the starter)

If while cranking, battery volts drop below 10, then you have a bad battery or starter. OR, The other possible consideration to cause great amperage draw that drops a good battery volts low, is for some reason the engine is very difficult to turn over, like (seize, still in gear, mechanical jam, hydrostatic lock, etc. ( battery "juice" getting to starter, but TOO much is needed.) The starter has to work very hard and requires lots of battery power.

Perform the test as described and tell us what you find

nert
 
nert said:
Electrical problems are not usually "visual".
Embellishment on my earlier post. Connect the volt meter to the hard lugs of the battery. Not the screw head, nut, or wire.

If while cranking the battery volts stay high, near 12, than you have poor connection, high resistance, bad brushes (in starter), wiring, etc. (the battery "juice" can't get to the starter)

If while cranking, battery volts drop below 10, then you have a bad battery or starter. OR, The other possible consideration to cause great amperage draw that drops a good battery volts low, is for some reason the engine is very difficult to turn over, like (seize, still in gear, mechanical jam, hydrostatic lock, etc. ( battery "juice" getting to starter, but TOO much is needed.) The starter has to work very hard and requires lots of battery power.

Perform the test as described and tell us what you find

nert
Click to expand...

When the issue is happening, voltage drops to 9.5-10 across the battery. Voltage across the ground to case drops .4 during cranking. From pos to the doohickey, it dropped 4.9 until I cleaned the contact, then it dropped .5. This, I thought, was the issue, but the issue returned.
Checking the pos to the starter in the morning.
 
sounds like you are on the right track now. With an alleged good battery, pretty good voltage drop at the battery, it is sounding like the starter. Did you indicate the mileage on the bike.

A really good way to verify starter or engine problem is to measure amp draw. Hand held meters will only do 20 amps at the most. You need access to an induction meter with a probe that fits around your battery cable and display the amps while cranking. The zuki starter requires about 80 amps to crank and start the engine. The yb14la2 battery is rated at about 190 amps CCA.
Something like? it can maintain at least 7.2 volts across the battery, for 30 seconds, with a 190 amp load at 0 degrees F.

My bikes start instantly. I will have to disable the ignition and check battery voltage while cranking.
 
Tested my 82' 1100GLZ, 2 year old battery minimum, last run on Friday 09-21-07.

Static battery charge before doing anything. Battery = 12.6 vdc.
Key on, lights on, disable ignition and crank. = Battery volts drop to 11.3 vdc.

Your problem still seems like either, (1) low battery charge, (although battery is new and does same thing on charger). (2) bad starter. or (3) engine problem, (you say runs great, etc, etc once started).

Looking like (2), bad starter.

nert
 
I had this problem one of the permanent magnets had become less permenant inside the starter motor and was loose, stuck to the next one (there should be 4). I epoxied it back in and it started properly again.
 
Well, I replaced all the wiring to the starter and battery, just to be sure. might as well while I am in there...

Pulled the starter, took it apart, and nearly wept.... it was FUBAR inside. magnets had broken free and were sliding around.
f63cbaf9f77ffedd9291bff702e3f8230_large.jpg



So I pulled one from my old GS650G engine and examined it. Almost identical, except near pristine inside.
X-refed the parts with my new program, not crossable, but the 650G starter is used in the 1100G and the 1000L as well as a whole range of others (850,750,450,300). So it has the power to do the job. Shaft is identical in every way. The only difference is that the rear plate is not the same, different mount points.
b8f6b32295def7a126f052931d89765c0_large.jpg


So i swapped the plate from the 1100E's broken starter to the 650G's good one. perfect fit. Starter is a perfect fit in the bike. I will finish the install and wiring tomorrow and let you know how it goes!

As of this moment, it appears that if you swap the rear plate, you can interchange the starters from many bikes!
 
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