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Another Compufire and Possible Failure Thread

niclpnut

niclpnut

Forum Mentor
Past Site Supporter
I Installed a new stator and regulator at the same time about 150 miles ago.

Everything checked out well, with battery voltage readings at 13.5 at 2500 and 14.4 at 5000.

Last night on the way home from work, the bike would not hold idle at a stop, and all the warning lights on the gauges would randomly all flicker on and off.

This morning I decided to go over everything. I put a battery tender on overnight.

Quick test:

key off 12.8
Key on 12.1
Idle 12.3
2500 12.5
5000 12.5

Did the test a couple times and the numbers got progressively worse.

Disconnected the stator from the Regulator.

.8/.9 ohm between all three leads
2500 rpm 72 ACV

Testing the Compufire:

Diode test

Red lead to + : infinate
Black lead to + : .48 .47 .43
Red lead to - : infinate
Black Lead to - : infinate

Since I'm seeing infinate readings on both tests off the ground wire, I'm assuming the unit is faulty.


Regulator is grounded to battery terminal. 20amp inline fuse wired directly to the +battery terminal.

Additionally as far as the Diode tests go for a Regulator, I could get NO readings when testing one of the SH775 units I have.

Stumped at this point.

Nic
 
Swapped out the Compufire with the Shindengen unit.

Same quick test results.

Can't believe that both units would be bad.

Back to the stator I assume. Never had a stator fail so quickly if so...

Anything I'm missing with the stator checks?

Double checked the wiring connections on the regulators Positive and Ground Lead wires with only .02 or less Voltage readings. Well under the .2 limit.
Nic
 
I pulled the Stator and looked it over. Windings look OK however there is one dark spot on one of the windings which may indicate a short to ground.

I've never purchased a stator from Caltric (ebay vender). One thing that really got me wondering is the lack of a full coating of insulation over the majority of the wiring on the windings and around the shoulder of the stator mount.

I have contacted Caltric via email, and got an almost immediate reply, on a SUNDAY no less :eek:, from a representative. The representative stated they had never received a complaint about the product regarding the issues I indicated.

They will not only honor their 1 year warranty but ship it out priority free of cost without even needing to see the suspect regulator or have it returned.

There is a local electrical shop in KC that does provide a rewind service. I'm planning on taking the New and the VERY NEW stators to them to evaluate the product.


I am still curious regarding the method of bench testing the compufire and Shindengen units. Is there a sure fire way to know good from bad, or do I already have the answers from the tests I have already made.

Nic
 
niclpnut said:
I pulled the Stator and looked it over. Windings look OK however there is one dark spot on one of the windings which may indicate a short to ground.

I've never purchased a stator from Caltric (ebay vender). One thing that really got me wondering is the lack of a full coating of insulation over the majority of the wiring on the windings and around the shoulder of the stator mount.

I have contacted Caltric via email, and got an almost immediate reply, on a SUNDAY no less :eek:, from a representative. The representative stated they had never received a complaint about the product regarding the issues I indicated.

They will not only honor their 1 year warranty but ship it out priority free of cost without even needing to see the suspect regulator or have it returned.

There is a local electrical shop in KC that does provide a rewind service. I'm planning on taking the New and the VERY NEW stators to them to evaluate the product.


I am still curious regarding the method of bench testing the compufire and Shindengen units. Is there a sure fire way to know good from bad, or do I already have the answers from the tests I have already made.

Nic
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the SH775 and the Compufire are not identical electrically and not even functionally so the old Shunt R/R tests are also invalid (especially the diode tests).

One set of tests results would indicate a bad stator but it would still be inconclusive.

Since both units give the same result I would assume it is the stator that is bad.

The black spot indicates a short and I think you have properly diagnosed that. Sounds like a manufacturing defect of some sort. The CF should be very gentle on the stator, so it must have been very fragile.
 
You do have to wonder about a vendor that values its product so little that they do not want it back and accept a failed unit without question.

Coleman does this as does Simoniz

I suppose shipping back to China is prohibitive.
 
1. Not much epoxy on the windings would mean it would be more susceptible to vibration and fail sooner.

2. Guys from china on E-bay seem to care more about they're feedback and take your word for it rather than argue.

That's been my experience with e-bay.

You could get the wire and rewind it yourself. Its easy to do but takes time to coil them all. After than just use as much epoxy as you need to cover all the coils.
 
Sorry for all the hassle. Hope it's the stator and not the R/R. Looking forward to learning if the new stator solves the issue. Seems strange that the stator puts out 75 volts yet won't charge the battery. Guess no-load testing is not ideal.
 
Hey why is there not a load test?

Something simple like connect 2 or 3 leads to a 60w light bulb and measure the voltage while the bike is at xxxx rpm and it's lit up. Or measure the current. Then try the other leg combinations.

Having voltage there doesn't really mean anything.

I once had 148v ac on a 110ac line. Come to find out that at the other end the return was faulty and all that extra voltage was just induced. Kind of like what you would get with a step up transformer. It couldn't carry any current but showed lots of voltage.
 
Mekanix said:
1. Not much epoxy on the windings would mean it would be more susceptible to vibration and fail sooner.

2. Guys from china on E-bay seem to care more about they're feedback and take your word for it rather than argue.

That's been my experience with e-bay.

You could get the wire and rewind it yourself. Its easy to do but takes time to coil them all. After than just use as much epoxy as you need to cover all the coils.
Click to expand...

What kind of epoxy can be used?


Nic
 
Mekanix said:
Hey why is there not a load test?

Something simple like connect 2 or 3 leads to a 60w light bulb and measure the voltage while the bike is at xxxx rpm and it's lit up. Or measure the current. Then try the other leg combinations.

Having voltage there doesn't really mean anything.

I once had 148v ac on a 110ac line. Come to find out that at the other end the return was faulty and all that extra voltage was just induced. Kind of like what you would get with a step up transformer. It couldn't carry any current but showed lots of voltage.
Click to expand...

You will find the spec for a loaded test useing a dummy load of resistors.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=174130&highlight=phase+stator+test


http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3977567/dummy-load-scanned-pdf-may-14-2012-8-24-pm-649k?da=y
 
posplayr said:
You will find the spec for a loaded test useing a dummy load of resistors.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=174130&highlight=phase+stator+test


http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3977567/dummy-load-scanned-pdf-may-14-2012-8-24-pm-649k?da=y
Click to expand...

Sweet !!
Those need to be amended to the GSR main page along with the stator papers.

Rewinding the stator

I have done this and it works great! But it does take time and patience to get the windings tight and neat.

The epoxy has to be high temp and oil resistant but if you get the wire from an electric motor shop they will have something there or know what to get. I did mine with a 2 part clear epoxy, looked like normal 5 minute epoxy
 
Mekanix said:
Sweet !!
Those need to be amended to the GSR main page along with the stator papers.

Rewinding the stator

I have done this and it works great! But it does take time and patience to get the windings tight and neat.

The epoxy has to be high temp and oil resistant but if you get the wire from an electric motor shop they will have something there or know what to get. I did mine with a 2 part clear epoxy, looked like normal 5 minute epoxy
Click to expand...

I built the dummy load mounted on a peice of aluminum but have not had a chance to test how much it loads the stator. According to my caclulations it will only drop the output VAC by about 10% but will provide for quiet a bit of current to stress the stator. Much more at least than open circuit testing.
 
Nessism said:
....Seems strange that the stator puts out 75 volts yet won't charge the battery. Guess no-load testing is not ideal.
Click to expand...
Yes, indeed- this test is more conclusive than OHM to ground test as it's at higher voltage so easier for short to find ground.
 
tom203 said:
Yes, indeed- this test is more conclusive than OHM to ground test as it's at higher voltage so easier for short to find ground.
Click to expand...


That's what threw me for a loop.

Only think I could come up with is that the short to ground only becomes evident as the bike warms up . Possibly causing an intermittent failure under load.

Nic
 
niclpnut said:
That's what threw me for a loop.

Only think I could come up with is that the short to ground only becomes evident as the bike warms up . Possibly causing an intermittent failure under load.

Nic
Click to expand...
When my charging system started behaving abnormal (running voltage seem stuck at 12.5 ), first thing I did was check ohm stuff on hot stator- looked good.Ignored problem and kept running- many start/ stops, ( no battery charging in between). Finally did hot AC test- barely 10 volts phase to phase; pulled stator and found one small burnt section.
 
Took the suspect stator down to a local electrical shop.

After testing, they said the unit was good... The dark spot I noticed he said was just some discoloration.

So I assume I'm back to looking at the Reg/Rec units.

Nic
 
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