Are the points reliable?

[joe penoso]

I am rebuilding 2 1979 850 g both are low mileage with points, condensers. Are the points reliable? Is it better to change to electronic? What are some of the better electronic ignitions? Last ones I used were Boyer from the UK.
Thanks
joepenoso

 

[Nessism]

Points were used successfully for 3/4 of a century in countless vehicles. The only real drawback is they require regular maintenance.

 

[Rijko]

I run several points setups on my bikes, some others i use the Dyna S.

Points i check once or twice a year, unless they are worn they function perfectly for ages without maintenance.
+ : cheaper than the Dyna S
- : require a little bit of maintenance.

Dyna S :

+ : set it and forget it.
my bikes seem to start just a tiny bit easier with the Dyna S and
run a little smoother but hardly a difference.
- : approx 150$, needs an extra power wire spliced into the cabling,
very sturdy but pickups fail sometimes (very rarely). Not to repair when underway while
points can be replaced or adjusted.

 

[850 Combat]

OEM points and condensers are expensive. Cheap ones may not be that great. I still have cars and motorcycles with points. Put an electronic ignition on my Cortina, because the distributor is under the side drafts. It got an intermittent fault where it would misfire after an hour or so. I had a hard time diagnosing it. That particular electronic ignition is bad about not liking to sit with the key on while the motor isn't running. I think the Dyna in the GS1000G I have here may hae taken a dump. The bike runs, but can't take throttle under load after the first 2 or so minutes of use. The farther you go, the less load it can handle. It fires on all cylinders. I'm not certain its a Dyna, but the coils are. This bike has given no trouble in the years I have owned it. A little over 60K. I put a clutch in it, a starter, and 3 sets of tires. Needs another set of tires.

 

[Brendan W]

As Ed said, regular maintenance.
In addition to timing you have to watch the maximum opening or dwell time to allow energy to build up.
The mechanical advance gets forgotten.
Unless you have high end diagnostic gear the only way to test condensers is by replacement
Reduction of performance can be slow and you don't notice until you work on them and the throttle response is crisper.
Availability of quality parts is an issue. If you see a spring rusting get it out of there before it breaks.
Three thousand miles is probably the limit for a four with new points.
Compared with electronic systems they are often called dinosaur technology but they work and fixing them is easy.
That said there is a Piranha fitted to my bike from who knows when. Don't know if they are even made anymore. Seems bulletproof.

 

[Rijko]

OEM points and condensers are expensive.

OEM points are on Ebay now for approx. 15$, condensers the same : that's 60$ per bike.
But they can be found way cheaper, my local motorshop was happy to unload their last 10 sets
of point sets and condensers on me for 10$ per bike.
"Nobody buys those anymore" they said.
The cheapest Dyna DS3-2 is 133$.
That's 1230$ i just saved, the way i look at it.

If i had just 1 bike, i'd mount a Dyna S. But having over 20 ... i'm real happy to ride with easy to maintain, low maintenance point sets.
They last a very long time and are very reliable.

If i rode tens of thousands of kilometers per bike i might wear out the contact breakers but
doing a couple of thousand per year per bike i think they will outlast me.

 

[Gorminrider]

I wonder if a kickstart works as well with electronic ignition?

Points generally disappeared when kick starts did. ( or did BMWs carry on with both..?)

 

[Rijko]

I wonder if a kickstart works as well with electronic ignition?

Points generally disappeared when kick starts did. ( or did BMWs carry on with both..?)

If there's a healthy battery to provide power to the ignition, wether you crank the engine using a kickstarter or using the starter motor does not make much of a difference.
If the battery is low, a kickstarter is an advantage when the battery will not properly crank the engine.

For the big GS-es, the starter motor proved very reliable.
That's why for instance the choice could be made to scrap the kickstarter for the GS1000 to save weight.

If you have a bike without a battery, the initial power to the ignition system must be provided in a different way : by kicking the kickstarter the rotor is cranked to do just that.
They switched to electronic ignition (Hall sensor pickups in stead of contact points) for most bikes.
I worked on a modern Husqvarna offroad recently which has no battery but relies on coils to provide power to the Hall sensors and CDI.

 

[Gorminrider]

but Particular to the Suzuki GS, I'm thinking of the speed a kickstarter can spin the engine...The "ignitor" (TCI) relies on a pulse created by the spin of the crank. Will there be enough signal?
IE: if you pass a magnet s l o w l y past a coil, it may not produce the signal the TCI wants. But points open instantly.

Of course, I can spin my GS400 plenty quick, if it had a kickstart. But my 650? mmm dunno.

add: I'd stick with the points. as well said above, they work well. If you go on a trip and your electronic ignition fails, you will have to camp at a mailbox. But points and condensor in the bottom of a saddlebag are trivial.

 

[Rijko]

but Particular to the Suzuki GS, I'm thinking of the speed a kickstarter can spin the engine...The "ignitor" (TCI) relies on a pulse created by the spin of the crank. Will there be enough signal?
IE: if you pass a magnet s l o w l y past a coil, it may not produce the signal the TCI wants. But points open instantly.

Of course, I can spin my GS400 plenty quick, if it had a kickstart. But my 650? mmm dunno.

add: I'd stick with the points. as well said above, they work well. If you go on a trip and your electronic ignition fails, you will have to camp at a mailbox. But points and condensor in the bottom of a saddlebag are trivial.

Particular to the Suzuki GS : that's why i differentiated between setup with battery or not.
The GS bikes i worked on before all had a battery, i do not know of a GS without one.
But i do not pretend to know all GS models, maybe there were some without a battery.

 

[earlfor]

but Particular to the Suzuki GS, I'm thinking of the speed a kickstarter can spin the engine...The "ignitor" (TCI) relies on a pulse created by the spin of the crank. Will there be enough signal?
IE: if you pass a magnet s l o w l y past a coil, it may not produce the signal the TCI wants. But points open instantly.

Of course, I can spin my GS400 plenty quick, if it had a kickstart. But my 650? mmm dunno.

add: I'd stick with the points. as well said above, they work well. If you go on a trip and your electronic ignition fails, you will have to camp at a mailbox. But points and condensor in the bottom of a saddlebag are trivial.

I used to have a 79 GS 750 E. I bought it with points installed in it. a couple years later, I installed a Dyna ignition in it and it kick started just fine. BTW, electronic ignitions (DYNA) are NOT CDI.

 

[Gorminrider]

@Earlfor OK! thanks!
I understand your Dyna is compatible-with/similar-to the Suzuki system and therefore it follows that WERE a person to fit a kickstarter to a non-equipped, stock Suzuki with an original TCI system, and a working battery, it should/could work...

@ Rijko You make a good point with cost, weight, and consumer convenience. Likely that is it, but the coincidence of losing the kick and gaining the TCI is notable. So, just as discussion to clarify my original question:

If you have a bike without a battery, the initial power to the ignition system must be provided in a different way : by kicking the kickstarter the rotor is cranked to do just that.
They switched to electronic ignition (Hall sensor pickups in stead of contact points) for most bikes.
I worked on a modern Husqvarna offroad recently which has no battery but relies on coils to provide power to the Hall sensors and CDI.

As you know, Suzukis don't have Hall sensors. (solid state devices) My point was twards them having wee signal generators whose magnets spin in a small diameter versus say, (a bike I'm familiar with),a Honda *, and its CDI system where the trigger pulse comes from the quite big and wide flywheel magnet. That is, the Honda's magnet travels faster. I'm likely barking up an empty tree but:

While the (Honda )CDI system is entirely independent of the battery*, the Suzuki is not. Is it possible to kickstart a Suzuki with a truly dead battery,with points or without ? If there's a long hill, rolling down it could work, but spinning the alternator with a kickstart fast enough to generate all the voltage and current required seems difficult compared to a CDI or Magneto...

*a CDI being an improvement on the magneto and higher voltages are involved

 

[Grimly]

That said there is a Piranha fitted to my bike from who knows when. Don't know if they are even made anymore. Seems bulletproof.

Still available...
http://autocar-electrical.co.uk/products/newtronic-ignitions/suzuki-mc

I picked up a spare ignitor box several years ago just in case, and never needed it.

 

[Grimly]

I wonder if a kickstart works as well with electronic ignition?

Definitely. My 79 was fitted with the Piranha system and kick-started excellently.

 

[wymple]

Get the Dyna S and get it over with.