Avon roadrider cracking

[bwringer]

Sounds like Tires Unlimited is doing the right thing. Good deal!

To answer a question, RuGlyde is available at any Napa auto parts. If your town has a traffic light, you likely have a Napa nearby.

Anyway, I honestly have no idea if hillbilly mounting lubes can damage rubber enough to cause cracking. I was just wondering about the possibility.

But what do you think is in RuGlyde? The bottle lists "potassium soap" whatever that is, and it feels and smells for all the world like a very mild, unscented soap -- it reminds me of diluted saddle soap.

Napa sells another tire mounting lube that is much like KY Jelly. Which is perfectly safe for certain much more delicate rubber products than tires...

So if I were in a pinch, I would use a mild solution of Murphy's or some other mild soap. Or maybe run to the drugstore for some KY. I would definitely not use dish detergent -- it's very alkaline and can corrode aluminum rims -- although a very weak solution of dish detergent usually won't hurt anything.

I would definitely stay away from petroleum products like WD-40, brake cleaner, and the like.

In this case, it sounds like perhaps the tires were defective, old, or maybe even spent too much time next to a big air compressor motor or something.

 

[jimcor]

Yep, RuGlyde and Murphy's Oil Soap are the same thing.

 

[Guest]

Note: 20+ years ago, one of my jobs was to examine tires that fell apart, and determine if the factory screwed up, and if it did, exactly how it screwed up.

The tire is defective. A hard rubber compound wraps around the bead of the tire, Between the bead wire and the outer, hard rubber, lies another layer of rubber, not so hard, with reinforcing fabric in the middle. There are several possible causes for the circumferential cracks. One would be foreign material between the layers of rubber. Another would be that the fabric used was incorrect. A third cause could be that the fabric doesn't rise high enough into the sidewall area. I could come up with other possible defects.

To examine such a tire correctly, it would be dismounted, and a radial section cut out with a band saw. The section would include a severely cracked area, and an adjecent area that hasn't yet cracked. A second section would be removed with no cracking at all. The sections would be buffed on a cloth wheel until they are smooth. The dimensions and locations of each piece of rubber in the bead area (there could be four or five of them) would be carefully measured, to within 0.01" or better, and compared to the specification for the cured tire. (The factory and corporate tire development department cut apart tires pulled from regular production at random intervals, make these measurements and record them, so they know exactly what they should be. In addition, when the tire was developed and run on test wheels and test bikes, those tires were cut apart and analyzed in the same way.) If the measurements don't reveal an obvious defect, the section without a crack will be dissected, looking for foreign material at the depth of the crack. Rubber would be dissolved, and an IR spectrum compared to that from known good tires to detect differences. Other sections would be dissected, and the rubber tested for physical characteristics and chemical composition. The same would be done for the reinforcing fabrics in the area.

Your tire probably won't be subjected to such intense examination. That is usually not done unless a pattern of returned tires is found, or the tire fails causing a crash. However, tires from the same production dates will likely be examined, as well as other tires that share the same types of rubber or fabric components. If a pattern of defects is seen, a voluntary recall will likely be issued.

After you get your replacement tire, send photos of the defects, along with photos of the information on the tire, (including all of the identifications and markings, on both sides) to the Department of Transportation. They keep track of such things, and if they see any patterns, they will start an inquiry.

Tires Unlimited is doing the right thing. They will probably inform Avon, and Avon will probably buy the tire back from them.

 

[Nessism]

Check the photo below of corrosion inside the rim on my 850 - bike has 4000 miles on it. After seeing this I bought a jug of RyGyde.

 

[hp1000s]

Check the photo below of corrosion inside the rim on my 850 - bike has 4000 miles on it. After seeing this I bought a jug of RyGyde.

Interesting pic!

 

[bwringer]

Note: 20+ years ago, one of my jobs was to examine tires that fell apart, and determine if the factory screwed up, and if it did, exactly how it screwed up.

The tire is defective. A hard rubber compound wraps around the bead of the tire, Between the bead wire and the outer, hard rubber, lies another layer of rubber, not so hard, with reinforcing fabric in the middle. There are several possible causes for the circumferential cracks. One would be foreign material between the layers of rubber. Another....

WOW! Excellent info. I totally forgot we had an actual tire manufacturing expert in our midst.

We all learned something, the OP has another tire coming, and this one didn't fail in use. A happy ending all around. :dancing:



To clarify: dish detergent can and does damage rims, especially aluminum rims, although the consensus is that it's harmless to tire rubber.

If you have to roll your own mounting lube, a weak solution of mild, plain soap (keep in mind that soap and detergent are very different things. Dish detergent is not soap) works fine and shouldn't hurt anything, unless you get too much water left inside the tire.

 

[mighty13d]

WOW! Excellent info. I totally forgot we had an actual tire manufacturing expert in our midst.

We all learned something, the OP has another tire coming, and this one didn't fail in use. A happy ending all around. :dancing:



To clarify: dish detergent can and does damage rims, especially aluminum rims, although the consensus is that it's harmless to tire rubber.

If you have to roll your own mounting lube, a weak solution of mild, plain soap (keep in mind that soap and detergent are very different things. Dish detergent is not soap) works fine and shouldn't hurt anything, unless you get too much water left inside the tire.

I've always used dis detergent on rims, but then again, the tires that I usually replace are tractor tires and skidder tires so we haven't been terribly worried about the tire corroding or anything. I have some Murphys oil here so I'll be sure to put some of that in my spray bottle for mounting tires instead. If this will bubble over a leak like dish soap then it will be perfect and I've always just kept the bottle 95% water:5% soap or so.

 

[Guest]

Check the photo below of corrosion inside the rim on my 850 - bike has 4000 miles on it. After seeing this I bought a jug of RyGyde.

Are you sure that this is corrosion and not a casting defect?

 

[waterman]

A happy ending all around?

A happy ending all around?

Hey, good deal! I probably don't need to tell you this, but make sure you request that they send you a tire with a recent build-code this time!

Regards,

Unfortunately, this March has been one I would rather forget, it started with the flu wiping me out last week and this week bronchitis. So when I called Tires unlimited, I was nearly hoarse and limiting my words. In the short conversation, I didn't mention date codes as I figured tire was defective.

Today, after work, I notice a tire on my porch:dancing:, looks nice, date code 5105. Oh well, I will give it a try. It is round and black and new. It will most likely be Sunday before I can get it mounted, extended family coming over to celebrate spring tomorrow.

I appreciate all of the comments and I will take pictures to send to DOT, thanks for tip. Likewise, I will try to find some RuGlyde, thanks Brian for replying. Ed thanks for reminding me to give the rim a thorough look over, not sure if I ever paid much attention to the valve stem area.

 

[mighty13d]

Unfortunately, this March has been one I would rather forget, it started with the flu wiping me out last week and this week bronchitis. So when I called Tires unlimited, I was nearly hoarse and limiting my words. In the short conversation, I didn't mention date codes as I figured tire was defective.

Today, after work, I notice a tire on my porch:dancing:, looks nice, date code 5105. Oh well, I will give it a try. It is round and black and new. It will most likely be Sunday before I can get it mounted, extended family coming over to celebrate spring tomorrow.

I appreciate all of the comments and I will take pictures to send to DOT, thanks for tip. Likewise, I will try to find some RuGlyde, thanks Brian for replying. Ed thanks for reminding me to give the rim a thorough look over, not sure if I ever paid much attention to the valve stem area.

It was brought up that Murphy's Oil is the same stuff, so if you can't find RuGlyde in your first store or two, just go to the local supermarket and you'll find the Murphy's right in the cleaning supplies. It's almost guaranteed to be in your local supermaket.

 

[Nessism]

Are you sure that this is corrosion and not a casting defect?

The rim is peppered all over with similar, but smaller, spots. I think it's corrosion due to water and a corrosive element inside the tire. At any rate, that's my theory.:-\\\

 

[salty_monk]

Checked my Avon's tonight... seem good, certainly nothing like yours. Batch code is 3007

Dan

 

[Guest]

re: "batch code"

DOT requires not only that the year of production be molded into the sidewall, but also the production week. I don't know if other manufacturers do so, but Firestone also molds in the identification of the curing press. A factory can have hundreds of curing presses, and some manufacturing defects can be introduced at curing. Including the press number can sometimes all the manufacturer to rule out large numbers of tires, both in examining tires that remain in warehouses, and in conducting a recall, should that be necessary.

 

[waterman]

Update

Update

Finished dismounting and mounting new tire today. Really didn't see anything on inside of defective tire to suggest any weakness in cracked areas.

Rim looked about the same as I remembered it from last fall, some darkish stains and a little bit of rubber on bead area. I cleaned rim with abrasive 3M, again no surprises. Mounted using Murphy's oil soap with water. Went a little easier but maybe since my oldest son (15 yo) helped, that may be a first for him. He is a good kid (takes after Mother.)

While apart, inspected spline gear. The 650 has a shiny silver color spline, didn't notice any wear. Lubed and reassembled.

All in all went fairly smoothly. Visited NHTSA and filed a online complaint about defective tire. Haven't had time for ride, maybe tomorrow.

 

[scottb]

After searching for information regarding rear tires, I found this thread. Today (5/9/09) I purchased a rear Metzeler ME880 Marathon tire,size MT90B16. I removed the rim and tire from a 1982 GS850L. I had the local shop that i purchased the tire from mount and balance the new tire. The numbers on the sidewall of the tire is DOT XE WM J699 1208. I would think the 1208 indicates the tire was made Dec of 2008?
I installed the new tire on the bike. After seeing this thread about new tires with "cracks" in them, I went out and looked at the tire. On the left sidewall of the tire, directly under the arrow of rotation is a 3 inch long "crack" that resembles the ones at the beginning of this thread. This tire has zero miles on it, as I just installed this tire today, but did not ride the bike. I will talk to the shop on Monday regarding this crack.
Is it possible that these "cracks" are caused by the mounting process? I did not mount this tire myself, but was done by the shop. I also wanted to post this to show maybe this problem is not limited to Avon tires.

 

[Zooks]

As far as mounting tyres is concerned - If you have nothing else available, rather than using soap or petrochemicals that will damage rubber, use KY Jelly (or any kind of 'personal' lube). It's specially designed to not damage rubber. Think about it for a moment.

(I'm being very serious BTW)

 

[Zooks]

One more thing - throw away your crappy Avons and get some Battlax's. Never had a problem with them.


(Zooks ducks and runs as he starts a 'tyre war')

 

[almarconi]

Today, after work, I notice a tire on my porch:dancing:, looks nice, date code 5105

Tires unlimited sent you a replacement tire from 2005? If they are selling old stock, I would avoid buying from them.

 

[tkent02]

One more thing - throw away your crappy Avons and get some Battlax's. Never had a problem with them.


(Zooks ducks and runs as he starts a 'tyre war')

Except they don't stick anywhere near as well, don't last as long and cost a lot more.
Other than that they are great tires.

 

[Zooks]

Except they don't stick anywhere near as well, don't last as long and cost a lot more.
Other than that they are great tires.

It was obviously tongue in cheek. The last set of tyres that I bought down here, the Battlax's were the 'best buy'.

I'm no Casey Stoner or Valentine Rossi but I do scrape the exhausts every so often and have never had any nasty surprises (yet).