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Bad News

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dave_17954
  • Start date Start date
D

Dave_17954

Guest
Well I have bad news to report. The engine I so carefully rebuilt may have bit the bullet last night. Was on my way home from the Indy time trials Sat. night and I was about 30 miles from home when she started making a serious hammering noise. Plenty of oil in it and it was running great. Doesnt sound like the engine broke but it might be siezed. :( Of course lots of pictures will follow and the first thing I'm checking is my oil pump. If this thing is trashed (motor) I'll be having lots of new/good used parts for sale off the rest of the bike. I've put since the rebuild at least 700 miles on it without so much as a hint of anything wrong. I'm absolutely crushed. :(
 
Sorry to hear about this Dave. Keep your head up, maybe the issue won't be serious. And remember, we are all on a journey of discovery...and mistakes are part of the process. Actually...it's only a "mistake" if you do the same thing wrong twice.
 
Well one thought I had about the oil pump gear snap ring may have come off has proved to be false. I thought the snap ring may have come off and the gear might have walked outwards and got into the back of the clutch basket. Everything in this area looks good. I've noticed theres some neverseize in the bottom of the cluth area. I remember using it very sparingly on the case bolts but nothing internally. Matter of fact used red/blue loctite on most of the bolts internally and conrod nuts i used red also. Double checked all my torques before i buttoned it up. Time to take off the valve cover and look at that area.
motocycleenginebreakdownseize023.jpg

motocycleenginebreakdownseize027.jpg
 
Dave

Dave

Glad you are digging into it; hopefully it will not be too bad :pray:.
 
Is that neverseize or some aluminum powder from something coming apart inside?
 
Ok got the valve cover off. All the cam cap bearing bolts are tight. All the shims are still in place. No metal shavings anywhere to be seen. All the spark plugs look normal. All the valve shim clearances are to spec .07-.09 mm. And I saved the best news for last I am able to rotate the motor with the 19mm bolt on the signal generator. I watched all the shim buckets move and they seem to be moving normally. And yes thats neversieze there in the pic. It uhmm has the right consistency and uhmmm smell. Not that I'm prone to sniffing goopy stuff :-\\\
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So What is it?

So What is it?

Rod Bearing knock?

was it a "knock knock knock" or a "clonk, clonk, clonk" :(

Sorry bad joke.

could water in the gas do something like that?

If you dont find anything, I would put some sea foam in the gas tank and restart it. :-k

Otherwise you are taking the cylinder off :pray:
 
i'll keep my fingers crossed that it's nothing fatal to your engine
 
Well I guess next up on the list is pulling the cylinder head off and checking the pistons. :( Is it possible to remove the oil pan without pulling the motor? I know i cleaned the pickup screen but am curious if it plugged up with something. The way it was hammering I thought something had come loose but then on the other hand after I had stopped at a stop light it bogged way down and the oil light came on. The oil light did not come on when the hammering started. So I thought at that time there was no lubrication getting to the upper end and maybe it was starting to sieze on me. But looking at the shim area there is ample oil there in the bucket pockets. I filled it up at a marathon station in Indy before my ride home. I can drain some gas out and put it in my test tube to see if it separates. It sounded more of an aluminum to aluminum hammering sound and it was Loud. I could hear the exhaust as I was riding and it sounded normal no backfires/misses or anything. the engine just slowly started hammering and when i was in gear it really started to labor under load. When i got to the gas station and shut it down I waited bout 15 minutes and tried to restart it and the battery couldnt turn the motor over. Normally just touch the button and away it goes.
 
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i pulled the pan off with engine still in frame on my 81 1100e. i did have to pull the exhaust off to do this.
 
Ok double checked the shim bucket pockets. I noticed number 1 intake and exhasut was fairly full/normal compared with other times I have had the valve cover off. Nmber 2, 3, and 4 had oil in them but is fairly low compared to #1. Could it be possible this neverseize/ goopy stuff Ive found have gotten into my oil jets clogging them up and thus starving the upper end? Is it possible to run some say 10w 30 oil in it with some rislone or other type motor flush to wash it out? Maybe leave out the filter and just run it til it gets hot then drain. just thinking out loud here :-k
 
engine failure resolved

engine failure resolved

well I found the source of my engine failure. The # 3 connecting rod has failed.I stuck a dowell rod down the spark plug hole and turned the motor over and when it rolled past tdc I was able to push down on the piston almost a good 1/4 inch. The hammering of course was the crank slapping into the connecting rod and rod cap area. I dont believe the rod has broken but I'm feeling pretty confident the rod and cap are ruined not to mention what the crank looks like. I cant understand how this thing could have let go. I red loctited the nuts and made double sure on the torques and of course they all had fresh bearings put in. So I'm gonna have to pull the motor and do a complete teardown again to even get a look see at it. :( Question is since I'm laid off and money is very tight do I fix it or do I part it out. Ive got almost $1000 in new parts in it almost $500 in just the motor. I had most of this stuff bought or money set aside while i was working plus a nice tax return didnt hurt either. I just put 2 brand new tires on brake pads on it 2 weeks ago. Should I part it out to recoup what I can or do I go for it with what little money I got. You can see the #3 conrod cap nuts just to the right of the cam chain gear. You can also see my tube of red loctite laying there as well. This is my rebuild pic. I guess since Ive lost my job, car, health insurance and my 401's in the tank I'm bout ready to throw in the towell. At least I thought I'd have me a nice cycle to ride to take my mind off eveything else but I guess it wasnt meant to be :(.
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Have you considered putting in a used beater engine on a temporary basis until you get back into the cash flow?
 
Did you check the rod bearing clearances during the rebuild?

That really sucks. Check around, it may not cost as much as you think to get it running again. You can reuse may of the same parts. One rod bearing and worst case a crank. Add to that a head gasket and you should be good to go.
 
Dang, Dave, so sorry to hear this. :( It's such a nice bike, and it was good to meet you when you stopped by last night when you were in Indy. It seemed to be running so nicely when you left, too.

Something else was wrong to cause two failures in a row like that. I hope maybe you can find another 650G engine or even just the bottom end cheap. They do pop up.

Now if you needed an 850G bottom end, we could do some business... :D
 
actually this was the only failure like that. The original problem was just the fact the #4 bearing was worn quite a bit and the #3 bearing a little bit plus the ring marks from sitting to long in the #4 cylinder. Yes i measured everything when i had it down and everything was well within the original specs for standard bearing replacements which is what i ordered. guess i'll tear it down just to satisfy my curiosity. At least i know the bolts wont be to hard to get out and i wont have to clean anything up in side the motor.....
 
Bummer about the crank. There must have been some sort of oiling system obstruction. Did you pull the pump apart during the rebuild?
 
i cleaned that motor so good on the inside you could have ate your lunch off of it. and yes i did take apart the oil pump also installed all new seals....i'm gonna tear it all back apart. will post pix. maybe i'll find that 10mm socket that seemed to come up missing :eek: just hurts to laugh anymore :(. i'm tired
 
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