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bad regulator/rectifier?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
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Anonymous

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I followed the excellent charging system troubleshooting chart and got a reading of zero on the diode test from the regulator/rectifier red wire to the stator wires. Got zero going to all three wires. The stator looks good though, got 60 volts at around 5000 rpm.

So I guess this means my regulator/rectifier is bad. One question: on the chart, it doesn't say if the bike has to be running or not during the diode test. I got zero both ways, but was just curious.

Now, I see a replacement Suzuki r/r is $150. Ouch. Electrex is $112, still pretty expensive. Are there any other options besides scrounging for used stuff (which might be suspect anyway)? Searching the forums, it seems a Honda unit is an option. Anyone got a part number or anything? Does it fit right in or does it take some modifications to use it?

Thanks!
Carl
 
Oh yeah one other thing. I can't ever get any reading whatsoever on the r/r diode test. Troubleshooting chart says OL is okay when connecting multimeter red to r/r red and multimeter black to stator output. But apparently I'm supposed to get around 0.5V when I do it vice versa (multimeter black to r/r red, multimeter red to stator). I still get 0L. The troubleshooting chart doesn't say anything about 0L?

Thanks
Carl
 
The diode test needs to be done with the tester set to ohms, not volts.
 
well, it apears there is a problem with the stator pages!! in the three years I have had my bike, I have never needed them so I have never looked at them.
I found a couple errors, first is, you should have more than 75 volts at each of the stator wires at 5K RPM, 60 volts is to low at that RPM.
and the readings stated for the diod test are incorrect.
with the red, positive lead conected to the red output wire, conect the black ground wire to three stator input wires one at a time, you should read OL or I, or what ever your meter shows for no conductivity. If you get any other reading, you have a bad rectifier/regulator.
 
Yeah, that makes sense. I am not getting any conductivity between my r/r battery output and the three input wires. I guess that means the r/r is okay?

My stator is putting out approximately 60V at 5000 RPM. Keep in mind this is a GS450. Maybe the bigger bikes pump out a little more? Is 60V okay for mine?

My battery is not charging... just stays around 12.2 - 12.4V even when I rev it. My only idea now is that it might be a bad connection from the r/r output to the battery.

Carl
 
Don Lobacz said:
The diode test needs to be done with the tester set to ohms, not volts.
Click to expand...

It's actually set to the diode test position, which on on my Sun Pro, is next to the ohms scale. And it does measure in voltage. The meter is actually outputting. On mine, in the diode test position, I can use another meter and measure 2.63 volts on the leads. I just went and checked the stator papers, the test sounds correct to me. It also worked for me when I had to use it a couple years ago, and the R/R passed.
The same test is at http://www.electrexusa.com/electrex_fault_finding.html . This is the text from that section: "Switch the multimeter to the DIODE-TEST function. (The reading on the display will be in VOLTS now, not in Ohms!)"

Sounds like Carlivar's R/R's diodes are toast. It also sounds like the stator isn't very far behind.
 
I fitted a regulator/rectifier from a Honda CX500, apparently these are known to be quite long lasting compared to the Suzuki ones. To fit them on you will need to file one of the mounting holes slightly, also they have an extra voltage sensor wire which will need connecting to a switched live, all the connections will need flat spade terminals fitted to the ends, to connect into the Suzuki connector. In the UK you can pick these up from breakers for about ?20-?30.
 
I've got a gs450 and I get ~90 volts for all three leasds in the stator testing. 60 sounds like a bare minimum. It sounds like your r/r is ruined. Here's the catch, if your replace the r/r and the stator dies, when it goes, it can take the new r/r with it.

hope this helps....Sam

carlivar said:
Yeah, that makes sense. I am not getting any conductivity between my r/r battery output and the three input wires. I guess that means the r/r is okay?

My stator is putting out approximately 60V at 5000 RPM. Keep in mind this is a GS450. Maybe the bigger bikes pump out a little more? Is 60V okay for mine?

My battery is not charging... just stays around 12.2 - 12.4V even when I rev it. My only idea now is that it might be a bad connection from the r/r output to the battery.

Carl
Click to expand...
 
You can check you regulator/rectifier by following the Suzuki procedure below.

With the r/r removed from the bike, fins pointing up and terminals facing you, the terminals from left to right will be A, B, C, D, and E.
Negative probe on A and positive on B you should get 6-7.5 ohms.
Negative probe on A and positive on C you should get 6-7.5 ohms.
Negative probe on A and positive on D you should get 6-7.5 ohms.
Negative probe on A and positive on E you should get 50-70 ohms.

Then switch the negative probe to terminal B and place the positive probe on A, C, then D, you should get no reading. Positive on E should read 6-7.5 ohms.

Switch negative probe to C and positive to A, B, then D, you should get no reading. Positive on E should read 6-7.5 ohms.

Switch negative probe to D and positive to A, B, then C, you should get no reading. Positive on E should read 6-7.5 ohms.

Switch negative probe to E, positive to A, B, C, and D should give no reading.

The numbers have to be within range. It doesn't take much of an out of range reading to lead to the wrong output.
 
Having heard about the Honda R/r's, and a recommendation for the 400/450 models from early 80's I took the liberty of attaching one to someone else's bike. 8O 8O

The advantage of this model is it exactly fits the bolt holes on the Suzuki 1100.
I don't know its abilities, except by reputation, but it it is larger than the Suzi unit, with more cooling area in its fins, which surely must help.

Run the green wire directly to the battery negative post.
 
I will try that Suzuki test tonight.

As for the diode test, my r/r actually passed. Turns out I misunderstood the test originally, but once I did it properly I got no connectivity in one way and around 0.5V in the other direction like I'm supposed to.

60V out of the stator worries me. I am going to double-check that.

I think I need to re-do all the wiring connectors. My stator to r/r connections get hot which I understand means the connectors aren't conducting well. I also plan to run a wire from r/r ground to battery ground.

One other thing, when I do the first two steps in the troubleshooting where I connect multimeter up to the battery and the r/r output (to test connections between r/r and battery) I get small negative voltage readings (like -200 mv I think). That is technically less than 0.2V, but am I supposed to get a negative reading? What does that mean?

Thanks very much everyone!

Carl
 
Sounds like you had the leads reversed.
Do you have the negative lead of the multimeter connected to the positive terminal of the battery like it says in the first part of the test?
Do you have the positive lead of the multimeter connected to the negative terminal of the battery like it says in the second part of the test?

Basically, you're looking for losses. If you find more than 0.2v in the first part, check the wiring from the red wire of the R/R to the gang connector.
If you get more than 0.2v on the second part, run a ground from the R/R mounting bracket directly to battery (-) and make sure the ground to the engine is in good shape.
 
Okay found out a bunch tonight.

First, I ran a wire from the r/r ground to the battery ground. My battery hardly even charged before that, about 12.4V. Now I get 13.3V at idle!

The bad news though is the voltage at the battery actually DECREASES as the engine speed increases! I suppose that again means possibly a bad r/r? Could it also still mean bad connections?

I don't think the stator is bad. It passes all the resistance tests and I checked again and I get 70+ volts at 5000 rpm. Can't measure too accurately since it's hard to hold the multimeter just right while I rev the engine. (I really need some alligator clip jumper wires)

As for bad connections, that's still very possible. Get this: I counted FIVE connections between the battery positive and the r/r output. Six if you include the battery post connection. One point there are two wires soldered together with electrical tape around it, another connection is the inline fuse, and the other three are bullet connectors. I did my "r/r to battery positive voltage loss test" again and got between 0.3 and 0.4 volts. That's above 0.2 so there's definitely a problem there. My next task will be to completely re-do that wire. Would like to replace the whole thing, but I think it will be hard to re-route a new wire so I will probably just put in new wire where I can, with butt-end connectors.

The voltage loss when revving still worries me, so even after re-cabling the r/r might still be bad. Could it be caused purely by bad wiring though?

Thanks
Carl
 
argonsagas said:
Having heard about the Honda R/r's, and a recommendation for the 400/450 models from early 80's I took the liberty of attaching one to someone else's bike. 8O 8O

The advantage of this model is it exactly fits the bolt holes on the Suzuki 1100.
I don't know its abilities, except by reputation, but it it is larger than the Suzi unit, with more cooling area in its fins, which surely must help.

Run the green wire directly to the battery negative post.
Click to expand...

Will this unit work on the GS 1150's?
 
[/b]all the help you boys gave him and look what he posted on his web site?



Whoo hoo! My dad's 1969 Triumph Bonneville arrived today. It hitched a ride with my friend Mike's brother's U-Haul. Who cares about the Suzuki -- now I've got a real bike!
 
Hope they got rid of all the old Lucas garbage on the Triumph. He thinks he had problems with the Suzuki, just wait.
 
Okay, let me respond.

Took the GS450 out for its first extended ride the other weekend. Broke down on the way back. Some sort of electrical short since the one main fuse keeps blowing. I have poked around in the sidecovers and headlight housing to no avail so far. Since my truck is in the shop, the GS450 remains parked where it broke down.

The electrics on the Suzuki are the worst I have ever seen, on any bike. It's simply a joke how bad they are. What was Suzuki thinking using such crappy wiring on this thing? And one fuse? That's just ridiculous for a 1981 bike. I would sure like to have multiple fuses right now, because then I could at least narrow down the system that has the short.

As for a "real bike". No, I don't consider a 1981 450 twin a "real bike". Would most motorcyclists? It is a fun bike, but a "real bike"? No. More like a beginner bike, even by 1981 standards. Besides, I hate plastic. The Suzuki has plastic sidecovers that break if you look at them wrong. The Triumph has METAL sidecovers. I hate plastic. It's the worst thing that ever happened to vehicles of any kind.

A 1969 Triumph Bonneville is simply a classic. It has its faults too, don't get me wrong. Lucas Prince of Darkness electrics are not exactly known to be reliable. But hey, the thing has a kickstart. I love kickstarts! I sure wish the GS450 had one. Anyway, the Triumph is from an era of motorcyles that no longer exists. I love such classics, and frankly feel a $400 1981 Suzuki can certainly be fun, and has its merits, but is not a "real bike". Maybe this is the sort of Harley-rider posturing that I hate, but the fact of the matter is that I can go out and buy another GS450 for under $500. Not as easy with a 60's Triumph Bonneville. In a sense, the GS450 is disposable (and judging by the electrical system, was designed that way).

So yeah, I'll take a 1969 Triumph Bonneville over a 1981 GS450 any day, and I'm sure many others feel that way too. Would you rather have a 1969 muscle car or a 1981 Honda?

Carl
 
I've only had one electrical problem in 18 years with my bike. The stator went out. And I've always felt that was due to a smashed cover that may have damaged the windings. Without a manual to go by I replaced the R/R before realizing the stator was the problem. I really don't understand all the fear people have of the stock electrics. With occasional maintenance most of the problems can be eliminated.
 
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