Bad starter I think.

[graybeard]

I have a 1982 GS850G with 17xxx mi. in very good condition. After a ride yesterday I tried to restart it ans only got the solenoid click.
(1) I pulled off the side cover and checked all of the fuses, all good.
(2) I checked across the battery with my meter. It shows a good strong 12.5 v. at the terminals. When I turn the switch to the on pos. I have good lights, when I hit the start button the solenoid clicks and there is no voltage drop the light remains bright.
(3) Took a screwdriver and jumped across the hot term. and the starter side term. on the solenoid. No response from starter.
(4) Removed the starter cover and checked the power connection, it's tight and clean.
(5) Starter seems to be grounded good to engine.
(6) Took a wire and went from the + batt. term. directly to the starter connection. No starter activity.
(7) Just to make sure there was no battery problem I jumped off of my lawn mower battery. No starter activity.
I believe these test point to a bad starter.
What can I expect to pay for a replacement?
Which models will interchange?
Can it be rebuilt?
How hard is it to replace?
Thanks, any help will be appreciated.
Graybeard

 

[Big T]

I agree you've narrowed it down

Try pulling it out and taking it apart. They often crud up over time. Some electrical contact cleaner may be all you need

Rebuild kits are available

Many of the bikes use the same starters

 

[Redman]

Graybeard,

Welcome to GSR.

Thanks for the impressive information and testing/observations you have listed.
Each of 2, 3, & 6 are things that indicate a bad starter (probably bad worn down brushes).

Uaslly someone says "it will not start", then have to determine/verify that they mean it will not turnover, then ask for them to check these things that you mention in your 2, 3 and 6.

Yes, starters can be rebuilt. Can get a brush kit from Stockers (or elsewhere), although you may not know if you need the 4 brsuh type of kit or the two brush type of kit.
Maybe you can take the cover off the starter motor, and look at back end of the starer motor to see what maufacture (Misubusho or Matsuthata or Ginsue or something or other) and can find that on the Stocker website. Any particulkar model or year of bike may have one of two or three manufuactures of starter motor. They all interchange, but have different types of brushes inside.

Or maybe you will decide that if you are going to the effort of taking out the starter motor, that you want to just reinstall a complety rebuilt starter right away, rather than take out yours and fuss around trying to rebuild it yourself.
Plus if you rebuild it yourself you are only replacing the brushes, and you have to also machine down the commutators (I did by hand by spinning with drill motor and holding with emmory cloth against the commutator bars).

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=131785
Posting with some photos.

So, compare cost of a rebuilt starter compared to a rebuild kit. Decide how much you want to fuss with rebuilding the starter motor and then if you want to try it, will need to find out what type/manufacture of starter motor you have to get the right kit.

I have used Stocker for rebuild kits and for rebuilt starters. One intersting thing they do with the rebuilt motors is the cost includes the shipping for you to send back your original (or at least that is how they did it a couple years ago) and they send you the return pre paid label. They dont charge the core charge unless you dont send them yhour original.

Hey, wait, oh wait.
Are not suppose to give any advise untill you post photo of your bike.
(joking)

Where on this planet are you and your bike located? (Goto User CP and add that to your profile and signature line, will then show up on every posting)

Again, welcome to GSR.

<<<Later note

http://www.stockers.com/index.php?oc=1
Enter in suzuki motorcycle, GS850
and see a listing of differnt starter motors and differetn rebuild kits:

Starter - Suzuki Motorcycle Type:Remanufactured Replacesenso Stockers #:SS-16
Retail Price: $224.95 Your Price: $149.95 Core Deposit: $50.00
Starter
Fits: Suzuki Motorcycle
1980-1982 GS550
1981-1982 GS650E
1980-1983 GS750E
1980-1983 GS850G
1980-1982 GS1000
1980-1984 GS1100
12 Volt, CCW, 9 Teeth

And here is another one
Starter - Suzuki Motorcycle Type:Remanufactured Replaces:Mitsuba Stockers #:SS-5
Retail Price: $209.95 Your Price: $139.95 Core Deposit: $50.00
Starter
Fits: Suzuki Motorcycle
1980-1982 GS550
1981-1982 GS650E
1980-1983 GS750E
1980-1983 GS850G
1980-1982 GS1000
1980-1984 GS1100
12 Volt, CCW, 9 Teeth


Seems like the list should include more models/engine size. I thought they were the same for about any 4 cyclinder GS.


THis from Dennis Kirk Catalog for a Ricks starter
Ricks Motorsport Electrics Starter

Dennis Kirk Part #: 202100




Manufacturer Part #: 61304

• Ricks Motorsport Electrics Starter

Your Price: $175.99

Low Price Guarantee (details)

• Part 202100 fits the following machines:
• 1978 Suzuki GS1000
• 1979 Suzuki GS1000
• 1978 Suzuki GS1000E
• 1979 Suzuki GS1000E
• 1980 Suzuki GS1000E
• 1980 Suzuki GS1000G
• 1981 Suzuki GS1000G
• 1980 Suzuki GS1000GL L
• 1981 Suzuki GS1000GL L
• 1979 Suzuki GS1000L
• 1979 Suzuki GS1000S
• 1980 Suzuki GS1000S
• 1982 Suzuki GS1000S Katana
• 1980 Suzuki GS1100E
• 1981 Suzuki GS1100E
• 1982 Suzuki GS1100E
• 1983 Suzuki GS1100E
• 1983 Suzuki GS1100ES
• 1982 Suzuki GS1100G
• 1983 Suzuki GS1100G
• 1982 Suzuki GS1100GK
• 1983 Suzuki GS1100GK
• 1982 Suzuki GS1100GL L
• 1983 Suzuki GS1100GL L
• 1980 Suzuki GS1100L L
• 1983 Suzuki GS1100S Katana
• 1978 Suzuki GS550
• 1979 Suzuki GS550
• 1980 Suzuki GS550
• 1978 Suzuki GS550E
• 1979 Suzuki GS550E
• 1980 Suzuki GS550E
• 1979 Suzuki GS550L
• 1980 Suzuki GS550L
• 1981 Suzuki GS550L
• 1982 Suzuki GS550L
• 1982 Suzuki GS550M Katana
• 1981 Suzuki GS650E
• 1982 Suzuki GS650E
• 1977 Suzuki GS750
• 1978 Suzuki GS750
• 1979 Suzuki GS750
• 1978 Suzuki GS750E
• 1979 Suzuki GS750E
• 1980 Suzuki GS750E
• 1981 Suzuki GS750E
• 1982 Suzuki GS750E
• 1983 Suzuki GS750E
• 1983 Suzuki GS750ES
• 1979 Suzuki GS750L
• 1980 Suzuki GS750L
• 1981 Suzuki GS750L
• 1983 Suzuki GS750S Katana
• 1982 Suzuki GS750T
• 1983 Suzuki GS750T
• 1979 Suzuki GS850G
• 1980 Suzuki GS850G
• 1981 Suzuki GS850G
• 1982 Suzuki GS850G
• 1983 Suzuki GS850G

.

 

[1_v8_merc]

Holy crap, smartest New member EVER!

 

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. graybeard,

Let me dump a TON if information on you and share some GS lovin'.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Rebuild Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[duaneage]

I have a starter for a bike like yours, cheap. Send me a PM for details.

 

[Steve]

You have done a good job of narrowing it down, but you can go a little farther before spending any money by verifying #5.

The starter grounds through its mounting bolts. Crack them loose and re-tighten them to be sure.

.

 

[graybeard]

Hi guys,
First let me thank you for all of the replies so far, I think I will need more.
BTW I am not exactly new to GS Resources and the Bike Cliff's website.
I bought my GS850 about a year ago and have been lurking around both web sites since then. I also own a 2009 Vstar 1300 tourer.
I would like to know if there is a detailed explanation of removing the starter and is it possible without removing the carburetors.
Someone sent a link where someone with a GS1000 said he had done it. Clymer says it can't be done.
Just don't want to do any more teardown than necessary.
Thanks again good info so far.

 

[Redman]

You have done a good job of narrowing it down, but you can go a little farther before spending any money by verifying #5.

The starter grounds through its mounting bolts. Crack them loose and re-tighten them to be sure.

.

Graybeard,
And along this line of thought: Maybe also check the engine ground cable on top/back of transmission. But I think is pretty safe to say you have concluded the starter itself is the problem.

About removing starter without removing carbs:
I think it is possible on an 1100G, just barley, ... but not on 850G (my memory from about 6 years ago, so , suspect).

Not too detailed, but in general; to remove starter:
Remove the cover (a couple screws), disconenct wire, take out the two screws on back end of starter, then pull back (is an oring seal is all you are pulling against), pull back and lift up (this is where you definatly benifit from more room). There you have it. Dont need to take the engine side cover off.

Removing the carbs is not too difficult. In general, Loosen carb boot clamps, Take out air box (goes out one side but not the other side, see the tabs on top of the box), Pull carbs back out of inlet boots, then...then can prop up the carbs with a small piece of 2x4 or something and then can move carbs around to disconnect the throttle cable and choke cable.
Reinstalling the carbs is a pain in the patutie if the boots are old and hard brittle.
With new soft boots, and after you have expereince removing carbs a couple times, you can take them off in 10- 15 minutes, and reinstall in maybe 20-30 minutes. THis includes removing/reinstalling the tank.

Dave

<<<<LATER NOTE
Hilsboro Ohio.
THat is near Cinci, and not too far from DAyton.
Are GSR memebers in both those areas.
Also, look in Meetingplace for rallys. Is one in southern Indiania in May. Maybe that is not too far for you.
.

 

[Tim Tom]

I had the same thing happen on my 850G over winter. The starter went bad. I purchased one from Duaneage for a very good price, put it in, and the bike cranked again.

Removal of the starter motor on an 850G is very simple and CAN be done without moving the carbs or airbox. Sure you could remove them and get more room but it is not needed.

Removal procedure is as follows:
-Remove starter cover, two small bolts on front and back of cover.
-Remove lead coming from solenoid.
-Remove two bolts on the back side of the starter motor. These two are tricky, as you cannot see them from the starter side. You're going to need to use an extension on your socket wrench.
-Once bolts are removed the starter is free to remove. From the starter side, push it back towards the clutch and lift up at the same time. Much wiggling is involved to get it free from the starter clutch but it is possible.

Installation is the reverse.

My advice is to get the starter motor duaneage has for sale, put it in and go from there. Much easier then trying to rebuild a starter.

 

[graybeard]

Tim Tom and Redman,
Thank you both for the replies. I am going to try the starter removal tomorrow, if its not too cold (no heated garage).
I will post what I find.
Redman, Hillsboro is nearly centered between Cinci, Columbus and Dayton.
Quiet little town 5000 people.Lots of good twisty roads.
Thanks again guys.

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

If you are in a reasonably large town there is likely a starter and alternator shop.

I have often used them for car items.
The local guy said he could do bike stators as well.

worth a try anyway.

 

[graybeard]

Well I screwed up somewhere, I made a post earlier today and it has disappeared, so I'll repost.
First thanks to Tim Tom and Redman for their step by step procedure for starter removal. Took it out in about 1 hr. Didn't have to remove anything else. I don't know about getting it back in though.
I took it apart and it's in pretty bad shape. Lots of carbon dust and two of the brushes were totally demolished and in pieces. The other two were in bad shape also.
The starter is a Mitsuba SN or SM 8210 0.6 Kw. No other info. on starter.
I am attaching a picture of the starter.
I wanted to send several of the different removal steps to maybe help others but I could only get it to accept one file.
I am in need of a starter. I would like to get a good used one to save on cost. According to Redmans post there is a wide variety of years that will interchange.
Thanks to everyone.

 

[tom203]

Well I screwed up somewhere, I made a post earlier today and it has disappeared, so I'll repost.
First thanks to Tim Tom and Redman for their step by step procedure for starter removal. Took it out in about 1 hr. Didn't have to remove anything else. I don't know about getting it back in though.
I took it apart and it's in pretty bad shape. Lots of carbon dust and two of the brushes were totally demolished and in pieces. The other two were in bad shape also.
The starter is a Mitsuba SN or SM 8210 0.6 Kw. No other info. on starter.
I am attaching a picture of the starter.
I wanted to send several of the different removal steps to maybe help others but I could only get it to accept one file.
I am in need of a starter. I would like to get a good used one to save on cost. According to Redmans post there is a wide variety of years that will interchange.
Thanks to everyone.

That's ugly - you should warn people before they look at pic!

 

[BassCliff]

I am attaching a picture of the starter.
I wanted to send several of the different removal steps to maybe help others but I could only get it to accept one file.

Hi,

For future reference: Posting Pictures To GSR

Won't that starter work once you clean it up and install a new set of brushes or starter rebuild kit? Keep up the good work!

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Tim Tom]

Well that's right there's your problem see...

Thats about how the insides of my starter looked. You can search through the parts for sale topic and try and find a replacement motor. Easier and often cheaper then rebuilding the motor. Last I checked there were a couple of members who had one to sell.

Installation is about the same as pulling the old one. The only difference is you have to spend some time and effort wiggling the motor to get the gear to mesh with the starter clutch. Once it's aligned it will pop right into place.

 

[Redman]

....
....I am in need of a starter. I would like to get a good used one to save on cost. ......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZU...9417051QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1981...6543190QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1981...2800994QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
(low starting bid, no bids yet.)


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzu...7699006QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzu...5814732QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/81-S...2031301QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980...8664537QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
(I like this one too.)

And that only looking at half of them, and was only searching for 850.

Didnt bother looking at 550, 1100 ectera, but if did would find more.

<<later note.
Oh, now see the last one is from Canada... that might introduce extra shipping cost and more delivery time.
.

 

[graybeard]

Update,
Well I want to thank everyone for their help.
I bought a used starter from tom203. He shipped it Sat. via US priority mail and I received it today about 2:30 pm. Fast service but costly.
It took less than 1/2 hour to reinstall the starter, hardest part was getting the little bolt in the back of the starter cover.
I hit the starter button and success, this starter cranks much faster than the old one.
I had previously had problems when the bike was hot, the starter was draggy . I have to get a nice day so I can ride long enough to see if that problem is gone also.
Again Thanks,

 

[duaneage]

If you ever find yourself having to work the starter hard because of bike troubles give it a rest between attempts. The starter takes 600 watts, that's around a 40 amp drain and it's really hard on the brushes. I would give a 5 minute rest after 30 seconds of cranking.

A PO might have really whipped your starter behind the woodshed.-