BanditRE's GS850

[Guest]

If you have it adjusted where there is still a little play but it doesn't seem like the clutch is disengaging when you pull the lever all the way in, then there are two other possibilities:

1) Incorrect angle on the clutch pivot lever (or whatever it's called) on the clutch cover. I have mine such that it points straight forward when my clutch lever is about halfway in. If you have it too much to either side, the clutch won't disengage fully.

I adjusted my clutch in much the same way as I too wasn't happy with the way it performed with occasional slipping.

Firstly, slacken the lever right off.

the adjuster on the engine was a bit too close to the limit of adjustment, so I took off the lever and replaced it so the adjustment was close the middle.

Then adjust the lever end to suit.

Much better feel and no slipping no matter how hard I try.

 

[BanditRE]

Sorry, a poor explanation by me. What I meant by "for the best shifting" is if I provide the "correct" free play, I can't shift from first to neutral at a stop. If I tighten it, I can shift from first to neutral but there's next to no free play. I looked through the shop manual when I reassembled the clutch to see if the angle of the pivot arm on the clutch cover was critical and they don't seem to make mention of it at all. Unfortunately I also took crappy pictures when I took it apart originally so getting a good look at where it was, is impossible. I'm thinking the pivot arm on the clutch cover holds the key to this problem after reading your response and Cyrano's response. Its pointing slightly to the right of center when disengaged and when fully engaged and the clutch lever pulled to the handlebar, its pointing farther left of center. What I'm trying to say, is its not even about the center, I think I need to rotate it slightly to the right, clockwise if looking down on the pivot arm, to provide an even movement.

I'll get the engagment/disengagement thing sorted out and then see if there's still a judder problem. If the clutch cable is too tight and not fully disengaging, I may not be allowing the plates to slip as intended. The steel plates checked out pretty well when I had everything apart, but it doesn't mean they couldn't cause a problem. The other problem may lie in the basket, so I'll have to take a closer look....

Many thanks for the help, guys. I'll report back after I've looked at this a little more.

 

[eil]

I'm thinking the pivot arm on the clutch cover holds the key to this problem after reading your response and Cyrano's response. Its pointing slightly to the right of center when disengaged and when fully engaged and the clutch lever pulled to the handlebar, its pointing farther left of center. What I'm trying to say, is its not even about the center, I think I need to rotate it slightly to the right, clockwise if looking down on the pivot arm, to provide an even movement.

From your description, it sounds like the position of your pivot arm is probably okay, but it won't hurt to play with it some just to see if it helps.

Sorry if you mentioned it already but when you had the clutch apart, was the clutch basket in good shape? On some bikes, the clutch plate will wear grooves into the basket which eventually causes them to not disengage fully even when you have the lever pulled all the way in. This doesn't really sounds like it's your issue but I thought I would mention it.

 

[BanditRE]

I'd be surprised if the pivot arm position is that critical. If it was, I'd like to think there'd be some mention of it in the shop manual. Having said that, the difference between somewhat decent operation (albeit too tight a cable) and crappy operation is a matter of a few millimeters of adjustment. The amount of movement the pivot arm will provide within the clutch is a function of how much rotation you can get by pulling on the clutch cable, and the location of the pivot arm will be critical to ensure you have the maximum amount of movement. If I was a smarter guy I'd know where that location needs to be! As I'm not, I'll just have to goof around with it until it works......hopefully.

I had read about wear on the basket last night. To be honest I didn't check it that closely when I had it apart. It has 36000 miles so its not impossible that the basket could have been worn. I'll play with the pivot arm and if that leads nowhere, I'll take the clutch apart again and see how it looks. If the basket looks good, then I can only assume its the steel plates or potentially a problem with the fiber discs.

Thanks for the help

 

[BanditRE]

I did some tinkering today, I'll report back in a little more detail later with pictures, but I have to go out soon. I played with the location of the arm and I did get the clutch to engage and disengage with about 2mm of free play which is the minimum the shop manual says is ok. Its not great, but it works and it has free play, but finding neutral isn't as easy as I'd like it to be.

With that aside, I took the clutch apart and looked at everything. There is some marking on the basket, but it was too hot to really run my fingers over it. It doesn't look or feel like its actually "worn" with grooves in it, but it is marked. Also similar type of marks on the inside of the basket. I'll post pictures later.

 

[BanditRE]

If anyone's interested, this is the position of the pivot arm where it worked best...


Clutch hub and basket while mounted on bike. Not sure how serious those marks from the springs are.


I couldn't get a really good look at everything while it was installed, so I removed the hub and basket. The next two pictures are of the clutch hub, the inner part of the basket assembly. To be honest, this seems more beat up than the outer basket/primary drive.




The next two are of the outer basket/primary drive. The marks on this look worse than they actually are. Although marked, for the most part, the surface is smooth. There are one or two areas where the surface is more worn, with smooth ridges and valleys.




What's left in the clutch....seems good to me.


I was hoping I could salvage the basket and hub with some careful sanding and filing to smooth everything out.
I think I know what the answers will be, but I'll ask anyway.
With worn areas on the clutch hub and basket, will that likely cause the engagement/disengagement issues I've been dealing with?
Will the same worn areas, cause the judder when I'm slipping the clutch to pull away from a stop?
What else am I missing?

In addition to the above, I had two metal driven discs that were slightly distorted. One within spec (0.002") and one at spec (0.004").
Your thoughts and advice, as always are appreciated.

 

[Steve]

Yes, those divots in the basket and hub WILL affect your engagement/disengagement issues.

Look at it this way: the divots are there because of the constant forceful contact with the disks. When you pull the lever to disengage the clutch, you are asking the disks to come apart a little bit and slide on each other. Because they are centered in their divots, they refuse to move. You now have a situation where it is hard to shift or hard to find neutral.

You can try filing them smooth, but don't forget that you will also need to file down the smooth ribs a similar amount, or they will be taking all the load and will soon be getting their own divots.

.

 

[BanditRE]

Googly moogly. Thanks Steve, that's what I figured. I searched Ebay this morning and thankfully found some good looking used clutches. Looks like I'll placing that order! I also noticed the same guy had a 79 cylinder head and cover that would work on mine since that bodge fix I had to do to get the stuck bolt out of the head. All is not lost!

For future reference, do you know what causes the clutch hub and basket to wear like that? Some of the used ones had wear like that, some had none and the wear didn't seem to coincide with the mileage the sellers had listed from the donor bikes. I'm just trying to avoid future hassles.

Thanks as always for the help.

 

[Steve]

For future reference, do you know what causes the clutch hub and basket to wear like that?

Stop trying to do wheelies. :-\\\

.

 

[BanditRE]

Well the used clutch parts had much the same wear as mine, only not quite as severe. So I carefully filed the clutch hub and basket until all marks and grooves were gone. Cleaned up everything and reassembled. I also replaced two of the metal clutch discs as they were slightly warped. I've since put about 200 miles on the bike and things are much improved. Shifting to neutral from first or second is better but not great. Pulling away from a stop in first gear, is fine, no problems. I'll play with the adjustment some more to see if I find neutral more easily.

But on the bright side, I put 200 miles on the bike which is great! Its running well and its the first I've really rode it outside of checking for bugs and problems. Good times. Its a nice bike, comfortable, very smooth, pulls well, good stuff.

I also took the windjammer off, and installed a headlight. I think the bike looks better for it and I appreciate the wind flow over me this time of year.

Thanks for all your help with the clutch issues. A slight tweak to the fuel screws in the carbs seems to have eliminated the dead spot just past idle, I'll see how the fueling works out over the next few weeks.

Fairing...


Back to Headlight and turn signals. I'll be trying to sell the windjammer if anyone's interested. I'll list it on the forum first, if that doesn't work, I'll resort to craigslist.

 

[BanditRE]

500 Mile Update:
I've had a few issues over the last few weeks. Nothing major really. The tach started squealing loudly on one long ride. It got so bad I had to disconnect the cable for fear of doing permanent damage. The right fork seal sprung a leak which was annoying after only a few hundred miles. The dead spot off idle wasn't quite fixed with my last tweak to the carb fuel screws. Then it started to leak fuel out of the overflow tube for the #3 carb. Obviously a stuck float valve.

I used K&L fork seals from Z1 when I reassembled the forks a few months ago. Replaced with a genuine Suzuki part and it appears to have fixed the fork seal leak problem. Note to self.....
Lubed up the speedo and tach drives with graphite lock lubricant and the squealing has gone. So has the erratic tach and slow-to-respond speedo needle. Great! Replaced the cables too for good measure.
Replaced the old headlight with a new halogen sealed beam and its much brighter now. The incandescent unit was fine but kind of dim.
After procrastinating, I eventually got into the carbs today, looking for the reason behind my stuck float and hesitation off idle. I assumed a bad float valve or some debris and another tweak to the fuel screws was needed, but after taking off the tank and airbox and looking more closely at the fuel filter, I saw this......





Woah. I did what I thought was a good job flushing out the tank after I cleaned it but apparently not nearly a good enough job. All that stuff that looks like coffee grounds in the pictures is tiny rust particles clumped together. The fuel filter did what it could for as long as it could but based on what I saw inside the floats, some of that got through and periodically got stuck in the float valve. I cleaned it all up, put it back together and installed a new filter. I'll keep a closer eye on it from now on. A quick test ride showed the hesitation off idle was still there, so another quick tweak to the fuel screws eliminated that. Burned my hand making those adjustments of course, but hey........it runs better now.

The 500 miles I've managed to do have been great! The bike's running well, pulling well throughout the rev range, the engine is smooth as glass especially for a 4 cylinder. Very comfortable bike, great saddle, plenty quick enough. This is a nice bike! I was expecting some annoying vibes in the handlebars like I've had with other 4 cylinder bikes but this GS has none of that. Very cool.

 

[eil]

Yar, these 850 engines run like sewing machines once they're all set. There's always a few kinks to iron out after a rebuild, nice to see you're getting them sorted well. Get in all the riding you can, the warm weather is going away sooner than almost anyone would like.

 

[BanditRE]

I think I have all the bugs finally sorted, at least for now. I've had a couple of nice rides aboard the old girl without a hiccup. I would assume (hope) that from now on its fairly problem free except for the normal amount of issues you'll get from a 35 year old motorcycle. I had a good time fixing it up and getting it back on the road, and I've been enjoying riding it. I learned a huge amount in the process too. Thank you to all those who helped along the way, it is much appreciated.

I'll likely enjoy the bike for the rest of the year, but once spring comes I'll probably list it for sale. I have the bug to bring something else back to life and I don't have the room for countless bikes......unfortunately. If anyone's interested let me know, I'm sure we can work something out, if not, then it'll be on craigslist once the weather breaks next year. Hopefully I won't lose my ass too much when I sell it, but I didn't get into this to make a profit!

Thanks again all!

 

[BanditRE]

Hey All,

A few minor updates. The old girl survived the fall and winter quite well. The inline fuel filter I've installed keeps the residual crap I'm getting from the gas tank out after I cleaned it but after a month or so it starts to leak a little gas. Nothing major but not something I'm crazy about either. Looks like I'm going back into the tank again to try to remove whatever residual stuff I didn't get out originally. I bought a newer petcock filter on Ebay too, which hopefully helps as my original tank filter was pretty lousy looking.

The tach screeching came back too after its long winter rest. I lubed up the internals as best I can without taking it apart and its quiet again for now. If it continues to return, I may have to take it apart and lube it up from inside. Its not something I wanted to take on, but as new ones are rare and ridiculously expensive, what else are you gonna do?

Other than she's running well. I had planned on selling it come spring but after some thinking and a couple of beers in the garage staring at them, I think I'm going to let the Royal Enfield go instead and keep the old GS

 

[eil]

Well glad you're keeping it around, if it came up for sale I might have felt obligated to make an offer.

You might need a new tach... The screeching is coming from the bearing in the connector. There's not much inside the tach to lube. And because hardly anybody lubed that bearing, you might go through a couple used ones before you find a good one. That's the story on mine, anyway.

 

[BanditRE]

You can always make an offer!

We'll see how it goes with the tach. I've noticed there's quite a few for sale on Ebay but not many with the gas gauge included in the tach like the 79 has. I'll see if one pops up used, or maybe I'll buy a new one without the gauge if the price is right. There seems to be quite a few of those floating around. The gas gauge isn't exactly accurate and I use the tripmeter to tell me when its time to fill up anyway. The graphite lube I've been using keeps it quiet for a while, but I'm not sure how much is getting on to the bearing. Time will tell!

 

[BanditRE]

Had a change of heart after the Enfield sprung a lose exhaust seat. Put the GS850 up for sale on Tuesday night and sold it this afternoon. I put her up for $2950 and got $2800 in the end. Nice young guy bought it locally. I told him about the GSR, so maybe we'll get a new member. Sad to see her go, but now I can do it again! I'm back to cruisin' craigslist for deals.

Thanks for everyone's help on here. Much appreciated.