M
mothra
Guest
So for the 450 twins, what brand and size battery do you guys like?
-
Required reading for all forum users!!!
Welcome!
Register to access the full functionality of the GSResources forum. Until you register and activate your account you will not have full forum access, nor will you be able to post or reply to messages.A note to new registrants...
All new forum registrations must be activated via email before you have full access to the forum.A Special Note about Email accounts!
DO NOT SIGN UP USING hotmail, outlook, gmx, sbcglobal, att, bellsouth or email.com. They delete our forum signup emails.A note to old forum members...
I receive numerous requests from people who can no longer log in because their accounts were deleted. As mentioned in the forum FAQ, user accounts are deleted if you haven't logged in for the past 6 months. If you can't log in, then create a new forum account. If you don't get an error message, then check your email account for an activation message. If you get a message stating that the email address is already in use, then your account still exists so follow the instructions in the forum FAQ for resetting your password.Have you forgotten your password or have a new email address? Then read the forum FAQ for details on how to reset it.
Any email requests for "can't log in anymore" problems or "lost my password" problems will be deleted. Read the forum FAQ and follow the instructions there - that's what we have one for...
-
Returning Visitors
If you are a returning visitor who never received your confirmation email, then odds are your email provider is blockinig emails from our server. The only thing that can be done to get around this is you will have to try creating another forum account using an email address from another domain.
If you are a returning visitor to the forum and can't log in using your old forum name and password but used to be able to then chances are your account is deleted. Purges of the databases are done regularly. You will have to create a new forum account and you should be all set.
B
BassCliff
Guest
Hi,
Your bike should take a standard YB12B-B2. I've had good luck with the Yuasa batteries but many here also like Big Crank and Odyssey. CLICK HERE to learn how to find out about all the forum member's favorite batteries.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Your bike should take a standard YB12B-B2. I've had good luck with the Yuasa batteries but many here also like Big Crank and Odyssey. CLICK HERE to learn how to find out about all the forum member's favorite batteries.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
M
mothra
Guest
Yea that was kind of a lead in....Lets just say that I have spent another $60 for a battery and am prepping it for more electrical troubleshooting.
Worked great for a day!
Whoo!
I am out of time and money for this kind of problem.
I give up with this bike! I completely give up. I can not find the problem.
B
BassCliff
Guest
Hi,
What kind of problem(s)? What are your symptoms? What maintenance have you performed? Let's see what we can do.
Do you have a battery tender? Motorcycle batteries usually don't like fast-charging high amperage chargers.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
What kind of problem(s)? What are your symptoms? What maintenance have you performed? Let's see what we can do.
Do you have a battery tender? Motorcycle batteries usually don't like fast-charging high amperage chargers.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
M
mothra
Guest
Alright so this actually should probably be under electrical...
Anyhow so I prepped a new battery last night.
Came off of the charger
at 13.56V DC Stayed at that voltage for 30 minutes or so off of the charger.
Stuck it in the bike and got a draw so dropped to
13.44V DC
That was with no key, and the forks locked, bike off.. ect
Next I measured the current draw on ground, didn't tell me much, but I got a 58.1uA draw so a small draw but nothing major. Didn't preform the same test on the positive lead. (Measured battery ground only)
Let the bike sit for 20-30 minutes and then took a voltage measurement again, now it was at 13.29V DC
Started the bike and let it idle, now I was reading 14.12V DC at 1,000 RPM idle
then 30 seconds run time later I got 12.15V DC 1,000 RMP's idle
Reved it to 3,500 RPM's ang got a charge of 13.53V DC a drop from idle,
Then it stayed constant at 13.57V DC after idle and started creeping back up to 14V DC on idle.
Bike was then shut off and the voltage was at 13.35V DC. From about 4 minutes of run time and some cold starting after sitting a week.
Here is a video of another test run measuring straight off of the battery terminals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1G73pZSl-U&feature=youtu.be
LOL
History of troubleshooting:
-1st I boiled a battery dry, tested the original OEM regulator, and it was over charging at 14.5V DC
-Replaced the regulator, and it was back under control for a little while, continued work on engine area
-Few days later I was out riding and the lights started to fade, so I had to bump start the bike and ride it home.
-Tested the new regulator at the gas station where it was bump started, and it was cold (the new regulator unit), so after some testing I discovered that the stator blew out
-Replaced the stator with a new one from OldBike Barn, and fitted it with some additional work to the engine. Killed the new battery and it was warrantied right away.
-Brought the bike in and they were alerted to the stator, and so they went through, found that the regulator was bad, (my findings as well) they reached the same conclusion that the regulator blew out with the stator failing
-Replaced the regulator again with a new one, and was working for a little while while I continued to work some more on the engine area.
-Got the bike back and rode it around and then the battery died, so I brought it back in because I had gone through and could not find a fault with any of the wiring. Had cleaned contacts had some friends go over it and tried some stuff, but none of us could find a problem. Tried different grounding methods, had a friend and an elect eng look it over. The reg/rec was again faulty. Could not find a "problem" with any of the wiring.
-Shop went though it for a long time and found a short, and several items that they cleaned up, bike worked great for a bit
-Tested it myself for 2 rides, both the regulator was preforming within spec, and the battery seamed good.
-Next battery died, and could not charge it back up after a week of sitting.
-Prepped a new battery and now I am back here at
It has over charged, undercharged, drained, killed and over charged again.
So far I have spent $200 in regulators shop replaced one regulator actually even though it was not warrantied while trying to help, $15 in bullet connectors and contact cleaner, $16 on new wiring $5 in bulbs, plus a $100 stator.
The wiring is pretty cleaned up. Well I have picked it over some probing and prodding.
Here is a pic
I tried to measure the stator output, I discovered the connectors were "Warm" but both ends had new bullet connectors male and female ends on them. They were also all wrapped up in electrical tape. I forgot though that this cheepie meter doesn't measure AC correctly (yea yea its on the AC setting its broken) So I will have to grab anther meter to check the measurements out on that.
On the pus side my newly re-covered seat turned out nicely... If it would just quit killing batteries then it would be a really nice bike!
Oh... I also found an oil leak but that's another thread I guess.
Anyhow so I prepped a new battery last night.
Came off of the charger
at 13.56V DC Stayed at that voltage for 30 minutes or so off of the charger.
Stuck it in the bike and got a draw so dropped to
13.44V DC
That was with no key, and the forks locked, bike off.. ect
Next I measured the current draw on ground, didn't tell me much, but I got a 58.1uA draw so a small draw but nothing major. Didn't preform the same test on the positive lead. (Measured battery ground only)
Let the bike sit for 20-30 minutes and then took a voltage measurement again, now it was at 13.29V DC
Started the bike and let it idle, now I was reading 14.12V DC at 1,000 RPM idle
then 30 seconds run time later I got 12.15V DC 1,000 RMP's idle
Reved it to 3,500 RPM's ang got a charge of 13.53V DC a drop from idle,
Then it stayed constant at 13.57V DC after idle and started creeping back up to 14V DC on idle.
Bike was then shut off and the voltage was at 13.35V DC. From about 4 minutes of run time and some cold starting after sitting a week.
Here is a video of another test run measuring straight off of the battery terminals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1G73pZSl-U&feature=youtu.be
LOL
History of troubleshooting:
-1st I boiled a battery dry, tested the original OEM regulator, and it was over charging at 14.5V DC
-Replaced the regulator, and it was back under control for a little while, continued work on engine area
-Few days later I was out riding and the lights started to fade, so I had to bump start the bike and ride it home.
-Tested the new regulator at the gas station where it was bump started, and it was cold (the new regulator unit), so after some testing I discovered that the stator blew out
-Replaced the stator with a new one from OldBike Barn, and fitted it with some additional work to the engine. Killed the new battery and it was warrantied right away.
-Brought the bike in and they were alerted to the stator, and so they went through, found that the regulator was bad, (my findings as well) they reached the same conclusion that the regulator blew out with the stator failing
-Replaced the regulator again with a new one, and was working for a little while while I continued to work some more on the engine area.
-Got the bike back and rode it around and then the battery died, so I brought it back in because I had gone through and could not find a fault with any of the wiring. Had cleaned contacts had some friends go over it and tried some stuff, but none of us could find a problem. Tried different grounding methods, had a friend and an elect eng look it over. The reg/rec was again faulty. Could not find a "problem" with any of the wiring.
-Shop went though it for a long time and found a short, and several items that they cleaned up, bike worked great for a bit
-Tested it myself for 2 rides, both the regulator was preforming within spec, and the battery seamed good.
-Next battery died, and could not charge it back up after a week of sitting.
-Prepped a new battery and now I am back here at
It has over charged, undercharged, drained, killed and over charged again.
So far I have spent $200 in regulators shop replaced one regulator actually even though it was not warrantied while trying to help, $15 in bullet connectors and contact cleaner, $16 on new wiring $5 in bulbs, plus a $100 stator.
The wiring is pretty cleaned up. Well I have picked it over some probing and prodding.
Here is a pic
I tried to measure the stator output, I discovered the connectors were "Warm" but both ends had new bullet connectors male and female ends on them. They were also all wrapped up in electrical tape. I forgot though that this cheepie meter doesn't measure AC correctly (yea yea its on the AC setting its broken) So I will have to grab anther meter to check the measurements out on that.
On the pus side my newly re-covered seat turned out nicely... If it would just quit killing batteries then it would be a really nice bike!
Oh... I also found an oil leak but that's another thread I guess.
M
mothra
Guest
Sorry I forgot to answer your question...
The battery tender and charger I have is a motorcycle battery tender charger and it is rated for a max of 2 amp hour charge a rate averaging 1.5amp hours with a pulse charge and battery condition sequence. It is very gentile on motorcycle batteries.
The battery tender and charger I have is a motorcycle battery tender charger and it is rated for a max of 2 amp hour charge a rate averaging 1.5amp hours with a pulse charge and battery condition sequence. It is very gentile on motorcycle batteries.
B
BassCliff
Guest
Hi,
OK, it sounds like you have the right battery charger. I was afraid that you may have cooked your battery with a charger that's too big.
Have you gone through the Stator Papers? Here's some links that will help you.
Stator Papers
Stator Test
OK, it sounds like you have the right battery charger. I was afraid that you may have cooked your battery with a charger that's too big.
Have you gone through the Stator Papers? Here's some links that will help you.
Stator Papers
Stator Test
Regulator/Rectifier Replacement
Use this diagram to connect the stator directly to the r/r unit. Ground the r/r unit directly to the negative battery terminal.
One difference I notice on your r/r unit, it looks similar to a 5-wire OEM unit so you will disregard the connection of the "sense" wire to the brake light switch. But I would suggest buying a more robust r/r unit. See the list of compatible units on my website in the electrical section.
Check and clean every electrical connection and ground on the entire bike. Replace whatever connectors are necessary. There should be no drain on your battery once the key is turned off. You would do well to pick up a decent digital multimeter. It doesn't have to be expensive, but you do need to read AC voltage when testing the stator.
Your story almost sounds like you have been replacing the stator and r/r separately and one has been blowing up the other. But before you go spending money on more parts, thoroughly test what you have. You'll find extra supplemental material in the electrical section of my little website, a couple of articles by Mr. posplayr (GS Charging System Health, Quick Test, etc), guides and tips for fusebox cleanup, wiring harness repair, etc.
The wiring I see in the picture looks pretty good. Make sure the r/r is grounded directly to the negative battery terminal. Remove the tank and seat to check and clean all of the electrical connections and grounds from the headlight bucket to the tail light. You never know what you might find. Keep us informed of your test results.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Use this diagram to connect the stator directly to the r/r unit. Ground the r/r unit directly to the negative battery terminal.
One difference I notice on your r/r unit, it looks similar to a 5-wire OEM unit so you will disregard the connection of the "sense" wire to the brake light switch. But I would suggest buying a more robust r/r unit. See the list of compatible units on my website in the electrical section.
Check and clean every electrical connection and ground on the entire bike. Replace whatever connectors are necessary. There should be no drain on your battery once the key is turned off. You would do well to pick up a decent digital multimeter. It doesn't have to be expensive, but you do need to read AC voltage when testing the stator.
Your story almost sounds like you have been replacing the stator and r/r separately and one has been blowing up the other. But before you go spending money on more parts, thoroughly test what you have. You'll find extra supplemental material in the electrical section of my little website, a couple of articles by Mr. posplayr (GS Charging System Health, Quick Test, etc), guides and tips for fusebox cleanup, wiring harness repair, etc.
The wiring I see in the picture looks pretty good. Make sure the r/r is grounded directly to the negative battery terminal. Remove the tank and seat to check and clean all of the electrical connections and grounds from the headlight bucket to the tail light. You never know what you might find. Keep us informed of your test results.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Last edited:
1
1_v8_merc
Guest
There must be a bad ground or bad connection somewhere!
(unless you have bad luck and One unit blew out the other, back and forth)
Most mechanics won't bother looking past what's Immediately Visible, and they'll call it a day, lol
I think Mostly All GS bikes have a majority of the wiring connectors Inside the headlight bucket, so take a look.
Also, don't forget to look back by the taillight also, there are many connectors there.
I would just relax, and slowly dig all over that bike.
Because it's usually the wire you CANT see easily or the connection you ASSUME is fine! haha I know that from personal experience.
(unless you have bad luck and One unit blew out the other, back and forth)
Most mechanics won't bother looking past what's Immediately Visible, and they'll call it a day, lol
I think Mostly All GS bikes have a majority of the wiring connectors Inside the headlight bucket, so take a look.
Also, don't forget to look back by the taillight also, there are many connectors there.
I would just relax, and slowly dig all over that bike.
Because it's usually the wire you CANT see easily or the connection you ASSUME is fine! haha I know that from personal experience.
V
verde
Guest
It sounds like you've got a good idea of what to look for, so forgive me but I'd rather cover this just in case: Did you try it just in the off position, not locked? If there is a "park" position on your ignition switch maybe the tail light is still on. I know two people who have killed batteries this way.
Eliminating the ignition switch, there should be only a few wires that could possibly be hot without the ignition switch on. That won't be hard to track down once you get your charging system sorted.
B
BassCliff
Guest
Hi,
Good call, I didn't think of this. The "Park" position on the ignition switch is usually all the way to the right. It locks the forks and leaves the tail light on. Turn the ignition all the way to the left to lock the forks and turn off everything.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Good call, I didn't think of this. The "Park" position on the ignition switch is usually all the way to the right. It locks the forks and leaves the tail light on. Turn the ignition all the way to the left to lock the forks and turn off everything.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
V
verde
Guest
Good call, I didn't think of this. The "Park" position on the ignition switch is usually all the way to the right. It locks the forks and leaves the tail light on. Turn the ignition all the way to the left to lock the forks and turn off everything.
The two people I know who did it were on honda's. Locked-off was all the way counter clockwise(changing to this terminology but I believe this is "left") and locked-park was almost all the way counter clockwise. Pretty easy to miss which one it clicked into if you're in a hurry to lock the steering and get somewhere. I think my 8 valve 750's were like this as well, but the ignition switches didn't hang around for long.
M
mothra
Guest
I fixed the electrical problem 
All joking aside?
I can't say that I have used "park" on accident or otherwise. The park position requires some effort to get it over to the part position. I always remove the key after turning it left only. It?s just engraved into my head at this point after my first car, so.
It pulled about 1.5 volts out of the battery while sitting for 4 days, which is new because it was not doing this a few weeks ago.
I have a good positive terminal and fuse as they were replaced during previous troubleshooting (you can see it in the pic the shiny new red wire).
That is an OEM 5 wire r/r unit. It was one that held up the longest, after replacing a few. I would say that it?s not a "bad" unit. But none of them have been "robust". This one is wired directly to ground however. The sense wire is hooked to the rear brake light.
There are also no "floating" ground connections with excessive resistance between them anymore. I did go through the connectors a few times once when I installed new turn signals, and another time just recently to double check everything. The shop did too, they replaced some wires here and there, and added a few new connectors on in various places, (not just visible and had it squared away when I got it back). Worked for a little while but its back to being special?.
I did end up replacing the stator and r/r unit at the same time when the stator blew. I did make sure that the stator was functional but then the old faulty r/r was used just enough to determine that it was faulty and needed replacement. I think that the stator is still fine, but I will have to check it out with a better meter which I have actually remembered to bring home.
I will test out some of the components as well. I went back through and about 90% of the connectors are brand new, the other ones cleaned up really well and were not in any way causing problems. Grounds look fine, there is no resistance between the ground points anywhere, and they are making good contact between all of frame grounds and such. I?d feel pretty good about placing bets that there is not a "connector" issue at this point. I will take pics as proof if you want but the connectors are thoroughly checked over. I have made zero assumptions that any of them are fien and have checked them off. I did check inside the light, the rear light connectors, the ignition points, and the r/r area connectors again. The stator connectors are new but they were hot! Might look to upgrade those connectors with something that would handle the current better. Other connectors about 70% of them were replaced, the others had no resistance and continuous continuity. Could not track down the current draw from the battery, but I got cold and went inside for the day. Also there is a new rear tail light harness run under the fender looks like they replaced that too.
Also I could not kick the bike over as the "side stand" switch would not turn off. But the switch was fine (by kickstand), and shorting the connectors on it still would not allow the bike to start. I then checked the connectors on that entire circuit and found nothing, and then I jiggled the harness and it fired right on up. HUMMM.... Will also have to test the ignition switch and starter button to ensure that they are working ok as well.
I can't say that I suspect a faulty connector anywhere; actually thinking it?s time to pull the main wiring harness and re-wire it. Sounds like it?s got a short or open or something. It?s been extra snowy here but I may be lucky enough to have some time tomorrow or Sunday to take a look at it further. I think this because I have messed with it several times and have not had an issue, but sure enough a couple of days later your right back to square one with dead components. This problem seems to transcend beyond faulty connectors. :-s
All joking aside?
I can't say that I have used "park" on accident or otherwise. The park position requires some effort to get it over to the part position. I always remove the key after turning it left only. It?s just engraved into my head at this point after my first car, so.
It pulled about 1.5 volts out of the battery while sitting for 4 days, which is new because it was not doing this a few weeks ago.
I have a good positive terminal and fuse as they were replaced during previous troubleshooting (you can see it in the pic the shiny new red wire).
That is an OEM 5 wire r/r unit. It was one that held up the longest, after replacing a few. I would say that it?s not a "bad" unit. But none of them have been "robust". This one is wired directly to ground however. The sense wire is hooked to the rear brake light.
There are also no "floating" ground connections with excessive resistance between them anymore. I did go through the connectors a few times once when I installed new turn signals, and another time just recently to double check everything. The shop did too, they replaced some wires here and there, and added a few new connectors on in various places, (not just visible and had it squared away when I got it back). Worked for a little while but its back to being special?.
I did end up replacing the stator and r/r unit at the same time when the stator blew. I did make sure that the stator was functional but then the old faulty r/r was used just enough to determine that it was faulty and needed replacement. I think that the stator is still fine, but I will have to check it out with a better meter which I have actually remembered to bring home.
I will test out some of the components as well. I went back through and about 90% of the connectors are brand new, the other ones cleaned up really well and were not in any way causing problems. Grounds look fine, there is no resistance between the ground points anywhere, and they are making good contact between all of frame grounds and such. I?d feel pretty good about placing bets that there is not a "connector" issue at this point. I will take pics as proof if you want but the connectors are thoroughly checked over. I have made zero assumptions that any of them are fien and have checked them off. I did check inside the light, the rear light connectors, the ignition points, and the r/r area connectors again. The stator connectors are new but they were hot! Might look to upgrade those connectors with something that would handle the current better. Other connectors about 70% of them were replaced, the others had no resistance and continuous continuity. Could not track down the current draw from the battery, but I got cold and went inside for the day. Also there is a new rear tail light harness run under the fender looks like they replaced that too.
Also I could not kick the bike over as the "side stand" switch would not turn off. But the switch was fine (by kickstand), and shorting the connectors on it still would not allow the bike to start. I then checked the connectors on that entire circuit and found nothing, and then I jiggled the harness and it fired right on up. HUMMM.... Will also have to test the ignition switch and starter button to ensure that they are working ok as well.
I can't say that I suspect a faulty connector anywhere; actually thinking it?s time to pull the main wiring harness and re-wire it. Sounds like it?s got a short or open or something. It?s been extra snowy here but I may be lucky enough to have some time tomorrow or Sunday to take a look at it further. I think this because I have messed with it several times and have not had an issue, but sure enough a couple of days later your right back to square one with dead components. This problem seems to transcend beyond faulty connectors. :-s
One of the most important things to do with the charging system is bypass the factory wiring. Verify your stator is good by checking AC voltage per the Stator Papers check.
If the stator is good, wire the stator wires directly into your R/R unit. Do not plug the stator into the factory wiring or you can have problems.
For the R/R output, take the negative directly to the battery or split it and go to the battery with one leg and the frame with another. Do not ground to the battery box or similar like Suzuki often did.
Last thing is power output from the R/R. You can feed the power into the factory fuse box, or just go straight to the battery with an inline 15A fuse. I'm inclined to recommend you try both methods and then choose the method that gives you the most voltage at 4000 rpm.
Your battery should charge at roughly 14.5 volts @ 4000 rpm. I wouldn't worry about the no load battery voltage changing as the battery sits after a shut down. This value will drop due to the surface charge condition on the battery. The important thing is the charging system voltage when reving up the engine.
Last thing, find Matchless's R/R thread and then pick out a nice OE type R/R and then go hunt on ebay as needed. I recommend the FET type. These are the best quality units available other than spending big money on a Series type. A used FET is a much safer bet than some overpriced Chinese R/R junk.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/06-FOREMAN-...ies&vxp=mtr&hash=item19cd59c21b#ht_3041wt_952
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-05-hon...ries&vxp=mtr&hash=item1e69ffe6d3#ht_511wt_952
If the stator is good, wire the stator wires directly into your R/R unit. Do not plug the stator into the factory wiring or you can have problems.
For the R/R output, take the negative directly to the battery or split it and go to the battery with one leg and the frame with another. Do not ground to the battery box or similar like Suzuki often did.
Last thing is power output from the R/R. You can feed the power into the factory fuse box, or just go straight to the battery with an inline 15A fuse. I'm inclined to recommend you try both methods and then choose the method that gives you the most voltage at 4000 rpm.
Your battery should charge at roughly 14.5 volts @ 4000 rpm. I wouldn't worry about the no load battery voltage changing as the battery sits after a shut down. This value will drop due to the surface charge condition on the battery. The important thing is the charging system voltage when reving up the engine.
Last thing, find Matchless's R/R thread and then pick out a nice OE type R/R and then go hunt on ebay as needed. I recommend the FET type. These are the best quality units available other than spending big money on a Series type. A used FET is a much safer bet than some overpriced Chinese R/R junk.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/06-FOREMAN-...ies&vxp=mtr&hash=item19cd59c21b#ht_3041wt_952
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-05-hon...ries&vxp=mtr&hash=item1e69ffe6d3#ht_511wt_952
Last edited:
B
BassCliff
Guest
Hi,
It sounds like you are being very thorough and diligent. I'm sure your getting close to a solution.
You state that you have an OEM 5 wire r/r unit and the sense wire is connected to the rear brake switch. Please note that 5 wire r/r units do not have a sense wire. Of the 5 wires, 3 connect directly to the stator, one connects to ground (battery negative), and one is the voltage output (to battery positive). In my previous post with the diagram I mention disregarding the "sense" wire as your r/r doesn't have one.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
It sounds like you are being very thorough and diligent. I'm sure your getting close to a solution.
You state that you have an OEM 5 wire r/r unit and the sense wire is connected to the rear brake switch. Please note that 5 wire r/r units do not have a sense wire. Of the 5 wires, 3 connect directly to the stator, one connects to ground (battery negative), and one is the voltage output (to battery positive). In my previous post with the diagram I mention disregarding the "sense" wire as your r/r doesn't have one.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
M
mothra
Guest
Thanks Everyone for your tips!!!!
These past few weekends have been full so I have not had time to get over and work on it. Sadly, my garage where the bike is stored while I work on it has been sold (Don't you hate it when that happens...) I live in an apartment right now so I don't own a garage, which is a huge pain. I have always had a garage to work on things. I was bumming the garage but the house it belonged to sold...
So I will have to find a new garage for the bike while I continue to work on it. Oh well It dosn't have to move for another 3 weeks. Plenty of time to round up a spot to keep it.
I have had 3 people tell me that its a write off and I should sell it!!!!
:lol: I am not selling my bike! Its actually one of the few things that is 100% mine. I love this bike so much there is no way that I would sell it. It hardly costs me anything to keep it, and its fun to work on, I have had one big learning curve, and who cares its winter time down here... Something to do.... If anything its a good excuse to keep buying more tools. :lol: Ok well it has costs some money to work on it but I mean its cheaper then my other hobby.
Anyhow I have some wire spools and connectors coming, and have gathered up some wire strippers, snips and a nicer crimping tool. I discovered that after 10 years my old heat gun didn't work, and so I picked up a new one. Now why a 25 year old had a heat gun from the age of 15....
Oh yea that's when I had a SAAB! LOL now I remember why I had it. HAHAHA
The stator tests good, but I may put in a fresh one after my re-wiring job here and not take any chances with it.
The stator has been routed directly into the r/r unit currently, it is not going through the factory wiring. So at least that's OK.
So I don't know why I was thinking "sense wire", but it turns out that that positive lead is not going to the "sense" but is wired up to the bikes "positive" wiring side, which goes everywhere but the positive terminal right away. LOL Having the computer nowhere near my bike I got sense stuck in my head. My bad. I CAN count, and should have known better. Humm...
I have the negative battery terminal grounded to the battery box, but the R/R unit's ground has been spliced onto a new eyelet connector on the battery terminal currently. Actually the negative battery box ground dead ends there. Should I remove it or keep it as is?
I can say that none of these conditions are the case.
Currently I will start to over charge on idle, drain running a load on the engine, and discharge within 5 days having the bike off. Do you get more than 5 days of charge off your battery with the bike "sitting"? I sure don't right now. IE a fresh battery will drain unused in the bike at 60 deg F in under 5 days. You will not be able to start the bike up.
Its not the connectors... Its not, they are all fine, every one of them. I'd wager an arm on that. I have double tripped checked them, they are all so new and so shiny and so non restive. I found them all, I looked them all over, I checked them with a meter, and banged my head against the cement floor several times and checked them again.
Oh man, Awesome, I wish I had noticed these earlier. Well at least I can rebuild the electrical system and not worry about the $100 r/r part that I keep frying. Watch, my first used $30 ebay r/r will work for 5 years... (Hopefully)
Who knows when tearing out the factory harness, maybe I will find something :lol:
Tomorrow... The tear down begins on the old electrical system...
These past few weekends have been full so I have not had time to get over and work on it. Sadly, my garage where the bike is stored while I work on it has been sold
(Don't you hate it when that happens...) I live in an apartment right now so I don't own a garage, which is a huge pain. I have always had a garage to work on things. I was bumming the garage but the house it belonged to sold...So I will have to find a new garage for the bike while I continue to work on it. Oh well It dosn't have to move for another 3 weeks. Plenty of time to round up a spot to keep it.
I have had 3 people tell me that its a write off and I should sell it!!!!
:lol: I am not selling my bike! Its actually one of the few things that is 100% mine. I love this bike so much there is no way that I would sell it. It hardly costs me anything to keep it, and its fun to work on, I have had one big learning curve, and who cares its winter time down here... Something to do.... If anything its a good excuse to keep buying more tools. :lol: Ok well it has costs some money to work on it but I mean its cheaper then my other hobby. Anyhow I have some wire spools and connectors coming, and have gathered up some wire strippers, snips and a nicer crimping tool. I discovered that after 10 years my old heat gun didn't work, and so I picked up a new one. Now why a 25 year old had a heat gun from the age of 15....
Oh yea that's when I had a SAAB! LOL now I remember why I had it. HAHAHAThe stator tests good, but I may put in a fresh one after my re-wiring job here and not take any chances with it.
The stator has been routed directly into the r/r unit currently, it is not going through the factory wiring. So at least that's OK.
So I don't know why I was thinking "sense wire", but it turns out that that positive lead is not going to the "sense" but is wired up to the bikes "positive" wiring side, which goes everywhere but the positive terminal right away. LOL Having the computer nowhere near my bike I got sense stuck in my head. My bad. I CAN count, and should have known better. Humm...
I have the negative battery terminal grounded to the battery box, but the R/R unit's ground has been spliced onto a new eyelet connector on the battery terminal currently. Actually the negative battery box ground dead ends there. Should I remove it or keep it as is?
I can say that none of these conditions are the case.
Currently I will start to over charge on idle, drain running a load on the engine, and discharge within 5 days having the bike off. Do you get more than 5 days of charge off your battery with the bike "sitting"? I sure don't right now. IE a fresh battery will drain unused in the bike at 60 deg F in under 5 days. You will not be able to start the bike up.
Its not the connectors... Its not, they are all fine, every one of them. I'd wager an arm on that. I have double tripped checked them, they are all so new and so shiny and so non restive. I found them all, I looked them all over, I checked them with a meter, and banged my head against the cement floor several times and checked them again.
Oh man, Awesome, I wish I had noticed these earlier. Well at least I can rebuild the electrical system and not worry about the $100 r/r part that I keep frying. Watch, my first used $30 ebay r/r will work for 5 years... (Hopefully)
Who knows when tearing out the factory harness, maybe I will find something :lol:
Tomorrow... The tear down begins on the old electrical system...
V
verde
Guest
Going full rewire job then? Some recent threads to reference, and some more if you search.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=187527
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=184355
If it passes all the tests laid out in the stator check pdf then don't waste your money.
Just my preference, I like to run the positive lead straight from the R/R through a full size inline blade fuse to the positive ternminal of the battery, and the negative cable from the R/R to the same engine grounding bolt that the large battery grounding cable goes to.
I can say that none of these conditions are the case.
Currently I will start to over charge on idle, drain running a load on the engine, and discharge within 5 days having the bike off. Do you get more than 5 days of charge off your battery with the bike "sitting"? I sure don't right now. IE a fresh battery will drain unused in the bike at 60 deg F in under 5 days. You will not be able to start the bike up.
I do believe you have a more serious problem, but is there any chance some rubber or foam insulation is missing from the battery box? If it's just sitting on bare metal that can zap a battery too. Side note: If storing a battery out of the bike, set it on a block of wood rather than directly on the ground or a metal shelf.
Good luck and keep us posted.
M
mothra
Guest
Well I did find some issues…
So I discovered that the rear brake light switch is partially worn, it works intermittently so I will fix that. Also missed its bullet connector which was corroded, OOPS
Here is my wiring diagram for hooking up the rear turn signals. I fabricated this since there was no rear turn signals installed, all I got was an assembly of one that was somewhat damaged and no wires hooking it up. I went ahead and measured grounds out and created this. Is there any better way to handle this? I also noticed that the chrome fender and the assembly holding the rear lamp all come into a common ground.
I bring that up because as you can see looking at my fabricated turn relay ground loop, the wire on the wire splice has gotten quite hot for the load and melted, shorting this to the frame ground. [Also I have to say that this was my first attempt at splicing automotive wiring using the “crimp” splice connectors, which I will be removing, and just soldering the wires together and then adding heat tubing per usual. ]
As you can see the main harness is in quite a state of disrepair. Here are some melted wires on the harness that I discovered, they could have been damaged with a heat gun as they are near a spliced wire, however there is visible copper around in that area. I will also have to double check that these connectors are run appropriately and there are no other problems with the components these connect to.
During the week I will unwrap the harness and inspect and test each wire individually and fix those issues with the main harness. I hope that there are not a lot of frayed or melted wires in there.
One last item was my wiring to the front turn signal. I have an aftermarket which has 2 grounds, one coming from the lamp and ties into the bulbs ground point, and then the chassis ground (which I added to get the relay to trigger), all connected into the main headlamp areas ground. At first the direct bulb ground didn't trigger the relay on that side (Stayed on, and didn't flash), so I tied in using an eyelet connector to the frame ground, and combined that. Should I have just gone directly to the frame ground and not the ground inside of the headlamp. (Pic of the right turn signal with lamp removed).
I also had some leaky gasket questions…
I have a leak in what appears to be the shaft that pulls out, that engages or disengages the clutch and it is linked to the lifter assembly and cable. When you squeeze it oil comes out from around the shaft and spews out all over, it runs down and burns off onto the pipe. That area was cleaned and found to be covered. It could also be the (neutral indicator switch?) May need replacement? What is that seal called, and where is it on the microfiche? Also do I have to split the case to get to it or can I replace it without too much frustration? Here is a pic I have taken from a blog that at least is similar enough that I can point to what I am talking about.
One last thing which I am dreading… This one looks like it needs a cylinder barrel gasket and o-ring set? It was recently cleaned, and engine runs OK, compressing is fine, but it weeps a bit around the cylinder barrel where it meets up with the transfer case. Here are some pics what do you think?
Oh and here is proof, that I do indeed have a decent multimeter.
I actually looked and there are no pads on the bottom of the battery box, so thanks! Nice tip to look for that. I think that was contributing to the problem of draining the battery, usually the battery sits on my workbench which is wooden when not in use connected to a tender. Otherwise it’s in the bike.
So I discovered that the rear brake light switch is partially worn, it works intermittently so I will fix that. Also missed its bullet connector which was corroded, OOPS
Here is my wiring diagram for hooking up the rear turn signals. I fabricated this since there was no rear turn signals installed, all I got was an assembly of one that was somewhat damaged and no wires hooking it up. I went ahead and measured grounds out and created this. Is there any better way to handle this? I also noticed that the chrome fender and the assembly holding the rear lamp all come into a common ground.
I bring that up because as you can see looking at my fabricated turn relay ground loop, the wire on the wire splice has gotten quite hot for the load and melted, shorting this to the frame ground. [Also I have to say that this was my first attempt at splicing automotive wiring using the “crimp” splice connectors, which I will be removing, and just soldering the wires together and then adding heat tubing per usual. ]
As you can see the main harness is in quite a state of disrepair. Here are some melted wires on the harness that I discovered, they could have been damaged with a heat gun as they are near a spliced wire, however there is visible copper around in that area. I will also have to double check that these connectors are run appropriately and there are no other problems with the components these connect to.
During the week I will unwrap the harness and inspect and test each wire individually and fix those issues with the main harness. I hope that there are not a lot of frayed or melted wires in there.
One last item was my wiring to the front turn signal. I have an aftermarket which has 2 grounds, one coming from the lamp and ties into the bulbs ground point, and then the chassis ground (which I added to get the relay to trigger), all connected into the main headlamp areas ground. At first the direct bulb ground didn't trigger the relay on that side (Stayed on, and didn't flash), so I tied in using an eyelet connector to the frame ground, and combined that. Should I have just gone directly to the frame ground and not the ground inside of the headlamp. (Pic of the right turn signal with lamp removed).
I also had some leaky gasket questions…
I have a leak in what appears to be the shaft that pulls out, that engages or disengages the clutch and it is linked to the lifter assembly and cable. When you squeeze it oil comes out from around the shaft and spews out all over, it runs down and burns off onto the pipe. That area was cleaned and found to be covered. It could also be the (neutral indicator switch?) May need replacement? What is that seal called, and where is it on the microfiche? Also do I have to split the case to get to it or can I replace it without too much frustration? Here is a pic I have taken from a blog that at least is similar enough that I can point to what I am talking about.
One last thing which I am dreading… This one looks like it needs a cylinder barrel gasket and o-ring set? It was recently cleaned, and engine runs OK, compressing is fine, but it weeps a bit around the cylinder barrel where it meets up with the transfer case. Here are some pics what do you think?
Oh and here is proof, that I do indeed have a decent multimeter.
Last edited:
Look under the clutch section of the parts fiche for part number 21 to find this:
OIL SEAL (6X34X10)
09285-06011
Also, there are pointers here in the archives that detail drilling a small hole to screw in wood screws into that seal. I had a hard time getting through the thin metal plate inside of it so I screwed up a kitchen knife and a couple of picks before finally getting it out. Put sealer on the new one before installing it (I have a tube of Hondabond)
OIL SEAL (6X34X10)
09285-06011
Also, there are pointers here in the archives that detail drilling a small hole to screw in wood screws into that seal. I had a hard time getting through the thin metal plate inside of it so I screwed up a kitchen knife and a couple of picks before finally getting it out. Put sealer on the new one before installing it (I have a tube of Hondabond)
Last edited:
V
verde
Guest
Ugh, you got your work cut out for you. 1st of all, if wires are getting hot enough to melt things there's something wrong, and if there are no fuses popping with these shorts that makes me think there is even more wrong.
You going to have to go over this wiring harness with a fine toothed comb and properly fix everything if you want a fully functional bike. If it were me I'd ditch any bells/whistles/blinkers/safety features and abandon the stock harness all together
Probably better and more educational to revamp this harness though. Anyway, always frame ground the headlight(bad to let it try to ground through the head bearings). It's my preference to run the ground straight back to the frame, but I do believe the stock set-up has a ground within the bucket and a wire back to the main harness ground. If something goes wrong with the main ground in the stock set-up, it's back to it trying to ground through the head bearings. With just a frame ground it's either working or not(no gray area = good). There are one or two good candidate screws for a frame ground on the front end... horn mount maybe or one that holds a wire/cable guide. Make sure wires can't get pinched by the steering.When you say "rear brake light switch" do you mean the one actuated by the pedal, or is it the switch on the brake lever on the handlebars that's giving you grief? Confusing because both light up the brake light on the rear of the bike, but only one is hooked up to the rear brake...
M
mothra
Guest
Ohhhhh, there they are! YEA!
THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!! I could not find the right one, I remember seeing them and then when I wanted to order them I could not find it. I ordered some oil seals for the leaky clutch area, the neutral indicator switch, and the leak where the clutch push rod is. That will stop it from goosing oil while its running and burning it off by my foot.
I am gong to wait on the cylinder barrel, mainly because I have so many questions about it.... Like that will seriously be the first time I have seen a cylinder up close and personal, is there a tool or will I need to keep the cylinder rings together or can I just lift the barrel off with out worrying about the rings flying off. Also do I compress them before putting them back in, and how do re-fit the barrel back over the two limp cylinders. Also I should probably prepare to hone them and such? Remember I just barely figured out how to time the cams. :lol: Least its back together and still working, so I haven't broken anything yet.
Yes the foot pedal actuated break light switch was bad. It was just worn out and it had a dead spot on it past a point.
I took inventory of the connectors and wires. I have not dug into the original harness too much, but that will be this weekend. I unwrapped the top half of it to inspect it and the protected areas are looking better then the other exposed areas were. So far 6 wires are damaged. I will also test the components and see if there are any faulty, but I think that the r/r is the only thing fried on here that I have found so far, aside from the faulty break switch for the foot pedal.
Most of the problems stem from grounds in the main harness, I would expect that finding a lot of "floating" ground conditions (IE grounds with lots of resistance between ground point to ground point.) So that would create a lot of current and cause a lot of issues. Now that the grounds were exposed they shorted. The stator wires were also melted in the factory harness, which would explain the stator coil that was brunt to a crisp on one of the coils.
I don't mind going though the harness if I can keep my "accessories" iE turn signals and horn (They are helpful and any bit helps). I let you know at the end of the project if I still feel this way about it. :lol: So far though its not to bad, at least the electrical is relatively simple and pretty well organized.