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Battery or starter?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wheelbreak
  • Start date Start date
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Wheelbreak

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So yesterday I went to leave work and my bike tried to turn over for one second then quit. All lights worked fine. I tried bump starting it to no avail (you forget how heavy these bikes are until you give four or five goes at a bump start.) I have done this in the past usually first try no problem. So I think it's the battery. It's about three years old and I just put water in it about 1.5-2 months ago. I was hoping to get through to winter before replacing it, but whatever. I order a new battery. So today I bring my charger in to work hoping to get enough out of it to get me home. I go to charge it and it needs water already again! I put it in, and charge on my battery tender junior. It checks out as being good, then charges for around 6 hours before it's done. I go to leave and get about half a crank out of it. The solenoid is definitely clicking. I put my multimeter on the bolt of the starter and the negative of the battery and the negative of the battery and when trying to crank I'm getting around 11.6-11.8 volts. The battery is reading slightly over 13volts. After about 5 attempts at bumping it I got somebody to help me push it and it started. Got home and it's the same as far as no starter but solenoid. Basically, should I be thinking about rebuilding the starter/buying a new one? It's my main source of transportation so this is a huge pain in the ass, so if I can order what I need asap I would love to. I have no idea how long until my battery gets here, and I don't want to have to wait even longer if I need a new starter to get back on the road.
 
Wheelbreak said:
So yesterday I went to leave work and my bike tried to turn over for one second then quit. All lights worked fine. I tried bump starting it to no avail (you forget how heavy these bikes are until you give four or five goes at a bump start.) I have done this in the past usually first try no problem. So I think it's the battery. It's about three years old and I just put water in it about 1.5-2 months ago. I was hoping to get through to winter before replacing it, but whatever. I order a new battery. So today I bring my charger in to work hoping to get enough out of it to get me home. I go to charge it and it needs water already again! I put it in, and charge on my battery tender junior. It checks out as being good, then charges for around 6 hours before it's done. I go to leave and get about half a crank out of it. The solenoid is definitely clicking. I put my multimeter on the bolt of the starter and the negative of the battery and the negative of the battery and when trying to crank I'm getting around 11.6-11.8 volts. The battery is reading slightly over 13volts. After about 5 attempts at bumping it I got somebody to help me push it and it started. Got home and it's the same as far as no starter but solenoid. Basically, should I be thinking about rebuilding the starter/buying a new one? It's my main source of transportation so this is a huge pain in the ass, so if I can order what I need asap I would love to. I have no idea how long until my battery gets here, and I don't want to have to wait even longer if I need a new starter to get back on the road.
Click to expand...

how long did you charge the battery after you filled it? My instructions said to charge it something like 17 hours. So 6 hours isn't gonna be enough for the initial charge.
 
the real question is what is my electrical problem? If you do the "Quick Test", it will give you a reasonable test of the battery not involving the starter.
 
Start taking measurements and recording them as per the test. If you follow procedure carefully you stand a much better chance of nailing this sooner. You say the lights were fine when it wouldn't turn over. Generally if a battery is dead so is everything else. The horn is as good a voltmeter as you'll get in this situation - if it gives a good blast the battery is good. While waiting for the new battery you could open off all the power and earth leads from the battery to the relay to the starter motor and back to the battery and clean every terminal and post.
To my thinking the battery is losing too much water and I wouldn't ride with the new one until I checked out the numbers in the 'quick test' and make sure the charging system is not overcooking the battery. How low was the battery electrolyte getting when you noticed it needed topping off?
 
Well as of now it's hard to do a quick test because of the pain in the ass it takes to start it. I just let it charge until the battery charger went green. Just looking to get it home. That was actually 9 hours. The whole day at work.

When it was first put in the bike the battery read 13.09 volts. I just went out to check it this morning and I am getting 12.29. I have no doubt the battery is on it's way out, but wanted to see if the starter was bad too. The electrolyte was just below the low lines by a 1/16" to 1/8" on all the cells. That's about how low it was a few months ago when I refilled it.

the battery is supposed to be here today! Super fast considering I ordered it night before last and it was shipped ups ground from Ohio. I'm putting powersportsplace on my short list of vendors. Fast shipping time is a big deal for me.

unfortunately I have no time to mess with it until Saturday. So hopefully the new battery will get me to work and back tomorrow, and allow me to do the tests, but as of now it doesn't look like it will.
 
13V is high, sounds like it was just off a charger. 12.3 is low. A healthy battery at rest should be 12.6. Fot the minute it would take I would do a quick check of the voltage at the battery terminals when it's running and see that it tops out at no more than 14.4 V all the way to 5000 rpm and that at idle you're getting about 13.
 
The part of the quick test to test the battery just requires that you turn on the ignition. Recoded battery voltage before and after turning the key.
 
I recently had my starter die on me. I had plenty of juice coming off the battery. It bump started fine, though. Yours taking a little more to bump start sounds suspect. Taking the starter out and testing it is really easy. Take the cover off, (2) 7mm bolts I believe, disconnect starter and remove the (2) 10mm bolts that hold the starter to the motor, then it should just slide out. Put the starter in a vise and apply 12v to the terminal and see if it spins.
 
gordinho80 said:
I recently had my starter die on me. I had plenty of juice coming off the battery. It bump started fine, though. Yours taking a little more to bump start sounds suspect. Taking the starter out and testing it is really easy. Take the cover off, (2) 7mm bolts I believe, disconnect starter and remove the (2) 10mm bolts that hold the starter to the motor, then it should just slide out. Put the starter in a vise and apply 12v to the terminal and see if it spins.
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Why not just pull the plugs and crank the engine over?


where do you get +12v for the test? A charger or a battery?

on my 1100 pulling the starter is a pain without pulling the carbs. Of course I have pods so pulling an airbox is not also required for that process.

point is there are much easier ways of diagnosing if the battery or starter are bad.
 
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I managed to get my starter out of my 1100 without removing anything but the cap plate. 12v can be supplied using a battery charger or a battery.

Not saying my way is the easiest... but if you're starter is suspect and you believe you may be replacing it, if it fails test while on the vice, you already have it out so the new one can go in.
 
gordinho80 said:
I managed to get my starter out of my 1100 without removing anything but the cap plate. 12v can be supplied using a battery charger or a battery.

Not saying my way is the easiest... but if you're starter is suspect and you believe you may be replacing it, if it fails test while on the vice, you already have it out so the new one can go in.
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unfortunately you have things so what backward. The easiest way to solve the problem involves finding the problem fastest; that means removing the least amount of things. The problem will tend to be a poor battery, so taking the starter out and reinstalling it to test the battery is hardly efficient. In addition the bench test you describe is unloaded and is not a valid test of the starter either.

the best way to test is determine if the battery is good and is so narrow down why he starter is not operating properly given the battery is good. Most of this takes 5 min with a volt meter.

you got your bike back running by following your procedure which is good, and if your starter was bad then the removal was necessary as well. However in general it is not a "best practice"
 
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My new battery is waiting for me when I get home. Sealed yuasa maintenance free. Fill it per instructions, and after the half hour I wait until I can charge it I go downstairs and it's leaking from a small crack in the bottom. This will be fun to clean up. So Crap!!!

Anyway I did the battery test again when I came home and it was 12.19 with the key off and a rapidly declining voltage as soon as I turned the key on. It was down to 11.55 within 15 seconds. I guess that means the battery is bad as I suspected. Now I get to figure out how to return this battery if I can. Then wait for a new one. I wish there was someplace that just kept them in stock so I didn't have to order them. Even the dealerships around here have to order them so you still have to wait.
 
It sounds like the battery is just discharged. Have you charged it before the test?

discharged batteries are not nessesarily bad unless they will not hold charge sufficient to pass the test after charging.
 
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Ya, I charged it on a trickle charger until it said it was full yesterday, and then some . Looks like I put the cap on the sealed battery a little too tight so I messed up my new battery. No refund for me. Damn!
 
Wheelbreak said:
I wish there was someplace that just kept them in stock so I didn't have to order them. Even the dealerships around here have to order them so you still have to wait.
Click to expand...
I did not know that Brooklyn had no shopping establishments. :-k

Around here, I can go to just about any auto parts place, Batteries Plus, WalMart, Sears, even Menards and get Motorsport batteries.

.
 
Wheelbreak said:
Ya, I charged it on a trickle charger until it said it was full yesterday, and then some . Looks like I put the cap on the sealed battery a little too tight so I messed up my new battery. No refund for me. Damn!
Click to expand...
A trickle charger is to keep a battery from discharging. They vary but they are not nessesarilly good for charging a discharged battery.
 
I have always heard the trickle charger is the best way to charge because it's 1-1.5 amps. I have a 6 amp smart charger as well but I don't like to use it unless it's an emergency and I need to charge the battery fast.

Ya you would think all the New York stores would be great. Basically any chain store here is the worst example of that store. Always out of everything, terrible service, and usually because of lack of space, a really terrible selection. It seems all of the auto parts stores have very little if any love at all for motorcycle parts here. I don't know if that's everywhere. I didn't start riding until after I moved here. The bike was a way to get out of the city. Now it's just an obsession.
 
I suspect if you put the battery on your smart charger over night your battery will be fine in the morning.

what do you have to lose?
 
Well it's definitely the starter. Has anyone had luck with a rebuild kit or should I just order a used one? How often do these things fail?
 
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