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Big problems, and I don't know where to start

Jethro

Jethro

Forum Sage
Past Site Supporter
TGSR Superstar
Charter Member
Here is the deal. I took most of the bike apart this winter with every intention of serious restoration. Aside form the crankcase and the cylinders, everything was taken apart. Well, I was infected with the snowmobile bug this winter and needless to say the bike got put on the sidelines. I managed to cobble her back together yesterday, but am having problems. The bike starts right up, idles nice, and takes off strong, but seems to have problems around 5000rpm. When it is in nuetral I can rev it up as high as I want (still sounds a little boggy), but on the road, I cant even get it past 5000 rpms. Any input is appreciated. Three things that might contribute to the problem:

1. When I took the signal generator cover off, I found a small spring broken in there. It was one of the advancer springs (tiny little spring, there are two of them. I replaced the broken one with one I made. How critical are the springs, what do they do, and when should the two arms of the signal advancer "spring out"?

2. My timing may now be off. My factory manual (you know, one of those red hardcover books) does not explain how to adjust the timing. Can someone go over it quickly? I undersatnd the basics.

3. My carbs might be totally screwed up. I had wanted to buy rebuild kits for all the carbs, but time and money have not worked in my favor. What kind of external adjustments can I try to make something help?

Thanks everybody! The snowmobile is away for the summer and now it's time to ride! Your feedback is appreciated.
 
By the way, I just found a great post by Earlfor that details the timing and gapping of the points, so no need to go over that.
 
Re: Big problems, and I don't know where to start

Jethro said:
1. When I took the signal generator cover off, I found a small spring broken in there. It was one of the advancer springs (tiny little spring, there are two of them. I replaced the broken one with one I made. How critical are the springs, what do they do, and when should the two arms of the signal advancer "spring out"?
Click to expand...

I bet the problem is here...the springs require a certain amount of tension to operate properly. Get replacements from Suzuki. This has a GREAT impact on your timing!!!

Hap
 
Oh Jethro, Sorry to here about your troubles 8O
Hopefully you'll be able to get back on the road soon. Finally got mine running right after almost a year.
You get her running right,let me know and let's see if we can meetup for another ride 8) 8)
 
Oh Jethro, Sorry to here about your troubles
Hopefully you'll be able to get back on the road soon. Finally got mine running right after almost a year.
You get her running right,let me know and let's see if we can meetup for another ride
Click to expand...

Absolutely! Guess you wont be on the 250 this time, wish I had some cash laying around to buy it!
 
Jethro, this may be a dumb question but, if you're running a 1100EX why are you worried about points? That should have electronic ignition.
Doze.
 
If the spring that you replaced is not the proper tension, the ignition timing will be off as you increase RPM...that is why your bike is stumbling as the RPMs increase. Those springs control the centrifugal force that the small weights put on the ignition advancer. If the spring is the wrong tension, either too stiff or too loose, your timing will be off. I'm convinced that is your problem.

Hap
 
Jethro, this may be a dumb question but, if you're running a 1100EX why are you worried about points? That should have electronic ignition.
Doze.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm a little confused at that as well. I understand most of everything that goes on with bikes, cars, engines etc. for the exception of the electrical system- it confuses the heck out of me! Do I have an electronic ignition? Here is what I know- under that cover is the end of the crank arm with a piece of flat metal that spins around and passes by two "points" or contacts- which it never really contacts at all. These "points" are attached to a wire that I assume finds it's way to the coils. Behind that whole mess is this weird thing with two arms and two little springs keeping it tight to the end of the crankshaft. When I was trying to solve this problem the other day I watched this area as I ran the motor. The little arms spin out with centrifigral force at about 3k rpm (with my homemade spring of course). What do the little springs and arms have to do with the plate and "points" in front of it? Is this electric or points type ignition? I was thinking of buying a whole new Dyno ignition system- is it worth it? It would be loads of cash.
 
Sounds like you have an electronic ignition with a mechanical advance. If so the springs you made should be replaced by factory pretensioned springs. as posted earlier these control the ignition timing at higher rpm and installing a similar sized spring out of say a ball-point pen just won't cut it.
Hope this help,

Gavin
 
Right on, springs on the way! Thanks everybody, I'll post the results.
 
Holy crap! Bike Bandit wants 103 bucks for the whole signal generator! They don't list a seperate part for the springs. I would go to my local dealer, but they have let me down so many times that I don't even bother. Anybody have an idea as to who I can try? I'm a little leary of placing a phone order for these things...
 
Hap Call said:
If the spring that you replaced is not the proper tension, the ignition timing will be off as you increase RPM...that is why your bike is stumbling as the RPMs increase. Those springs control the centrifugal force that the small weights put on the ignition advancer. If the spring is the wrong tension, either too stiff or too loose, your timing will be off. I'm convinced that is your problem.

Hap
Click to expand...
Hap, that was my conclusion also when I read Jethro's original post. It would seem to me that the spring rate would have to be correct to get the right ignition timing at higher rpm's.
 
Jethro,

Try Ron Ayers:

Part Number: 33120-49211
Description: GOVERNOR ASSY
Price: $80.73

Not cheap but a lot less than Bike Bandit.

Hap
 
The advance springs should be the same spring for both the electronic and points ignition systems as the method the ignition spark is created is independent of the advance curve needed. You may be able to find a set of advance springs at a boneyard from a points or electronic ignition GS

Earl


Hap Call said:
Jethro,

Try Ron Ayers:

Part Number: 33120-49211
Description: GOVERNOR ASSY
Price: $80.73

Not cheap but a lot less than Bike Bandit.

Hap
Click to expand...
 
Well you nailed it Hap! It sure was those springs. This evening after work, pissed off about Bike Bandit, I went to the hardware store and picked up about 8 bucks in misc. springs. Then I came home and slapped the carbs back together, threw 'em in the bike and set down with my vise and a set of needlenose pliers. Cut the spring, bend it up, put it in the advancer. Cut the spring, bend it up, put it in the advancer. Cut the spring, bend it up, put it in the advancer. Anyway, after about 8 tries, I seemed to have got it right! The bike runs better at full throttle than I can remember! And to think, I was ready to buy carb rebuild kits, new electronic ignition- got it running mint for 8 bucks! I would have sworn it was the carbs. This site rules, thanks everybody!
 
CONGRATULATIONS! Jethro.


After reading your exploits I laughed until tears flowed. Backyard mechanics at work!



Some may think your actions insane, or inane, but when you don't have the very latest technological devices ready at hand, (or the cash to have some else use theirs) you do what you must.

Been there. Done that. I've set up race engines that way!

Very glad you succeeded. Enjoy the ride!
:D
 
Thanks. If anyone needs new camshafts, I can take care of you with a broomstick, some pepsi cans and some chewing gum.
 
Update: My homemade advancer springs did not stand the test of time. Very slowly the bike started running poorly at the mid RPM's. I assume the springs are gradually getting stretched and affecting the timing. Looks like I will be calling Ron Ayers today after all!!!
 
Jethro said:
Update: My homemade advancer springs did not stand the test of time. Very slowly the bike started running poorly at the mid RPM's. I assume the springs are gradually getting stretched and affecting the timing. Looks like I will be calling Ron Ayers today after all!!!
Click to expand...

I am impressed at what you did any way...if I ever have a problem on the road I can at least fix it enough to get me home using your technique!

Hap
 
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