Bike dies out when I turn the choke off. Now what?

[wirelessguy]

Some quick background.

I have a GS1100E with a set of 1150 Carbs, K&N Pods and a 4-1 B&H sidewinder.

I just replaced my main jets (went to 130's) and the bike does start up stronger now. I have 47.5 pilots in, so I believe my jetting to be on.

Any clue on what I'm missing? I didn't get a dynojet kit so I'm wondering if I need to either raise the needles I have or drill out the slides more?

Short of that I'm at a bit of a loss for ideas. Should I continue to see this as a carb issue. Should I be dismantling the petcock and checking for fuel line issues?

Thanks.

 

[tkent02]

pilot jets.....
or the passages to them.

 

[yoshisakan]

Are you sure you're getting enough fuel? Try backing out the mix screws a bit and see what happens.

 

[BigD_83]

How long have you had this bike? What basic maintenance has been done?

Does the bike continue to run with the choke on, or does it die if you leave it running with choke for three or four minutes? How long are you letting it run with the choke before turning the choke off?

Does it start right up again after it dies without priming the carbs?

To keep a bike going once running, you need fuel, air, compression, and spark. Turning the choke off removes A source of fuel. The rest should stay pretty constant.

Start checking your fuel source from the tank to the carb throat. If you are getting flow to the carbs, then there is something blocking flow through the pilot jets and to the carb throat. The enrichener gas uses a separate passage...

 

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. wirelessguy,

It seems I have not given you the "mega-welcome" package. I apologize.

If you go through the maintenance lists in your "mega-welcome" and clean, repair, adjust, replace, etc, everything on the list your bike should be in pretty good shape. Skipping steps or taking short cuts will lead to frustration and catastrophic failure.

Let me dump a TON of information on you and share some GS lovin'.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Cleanup Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. This is what NOT to do: Top 10 Newbie Mistakes. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[wirelessguy]

The bike runs with the choke one for two or three minutes (roughly 2,500rpm).

I did unscrew (counter clockwise) the throttle valve screw which seemed to make things a bit better. Not sure if that means anything.

I also tried backing out the air screws a bit without much change.

The bike does NOT turn right back on again. I likely may need to re-prime afterward. Does something like that point toward a potential petcock flow problem? I did try switching to Reserve but that didn't seem to help me any either.

I'm not sure how much tinking I shoudl keep doing and if I should perhaps drill the slides but I do believe that she's not getting enough gas at present.

How long have you had this bike? What basic maintenance has been done?

Does the bike continue to run with the choke on, or does it die if you leave it running with choke for three or four minutes? How long are you letting it run with the choke before turning the choke off?

Does it start right up again after it dies without priming the carbs?

To keep a bike going once running, you need fuel, air, compression, and spark. Turning the choke off removes A source of fuel. The rest should stay pretty constant.

Start checking your fuel source from the tank to the carb throat. If you are getting flow to the carbs, then there is something blocking flow through the pilot jets and to the carb throat. The enrichener gas uses a separate passage...

 

[MisterCinders]

You really cannot sort out this kind of thing without establishing a baseline with all the maintenance in BassCliff's mega welcome. Nail down the valve clearances and fully clean the carbs. Then, if you still have problems starting and idling, we can get you over the finish line.

I wouldn't drill anything. Hard starting can be caused by tight valves. Running only on choke suggests an air leak or other lean condition.

Start with valves and carbs. They don't take a lot of work, and you need to do them anyway.

 

[allojohn]

Now what? ....Start reading on the BassCliff site. Your problem could be any one of a dozen things and you need to eliminate each one to find the problem. Step by step and learn a bunch about your bike in the process.........

 

[wirelessguy]

I'm NOT new here. Somehow my account got trashed and re-created so everything seems reset on my end.

I started on Basscliffs docs two seasons ago. With regards to offering up a baseline...

a) I removed the 1100E carbs and both dipped the carbs and then media blasted with soda blaster. Ended up not being able to remove some of the air screws on the last few carbs and then bought another set from an 1150.

b) I then dipped and blasted that entire 1150 set (removing the black paint while I was at it).
c) replaced the pilot jets for 47.5s
d) just replaced the Main jets for Mikuni 130s b/c I not have V&H 4-1 and K&N pods on the bike.

The other thing I'll note for completeness is that I did remove petcock and fuel gauge and did a POR-15 job on the tank and then reassembled.

I don't mind digging into the carbs again but I believe the passages and float height should be fine. What I was looking for is any sort of symptoms a bad petcock might cause to try and rule some htings out before unhooking the carbs and unscrewing everyting again. (AT least I was smart enough to put the hex screws on so that won't be as painful as removing them the first time).

Thanks.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

If the bike dies after shutting off the choke when warm then it seems like it's not getting enough fuel.

Is there an inline fuel filter? Is the petcock operating properly? Is the fuel tank venting properly? Are you using a stock airbox or pod filters? Stock exhaust or 4-n-1?

You'll find a chart for stock jetting on my website. How does yours compare?

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[MisterCinders]

Valve adjustment?

 

[Seana23]

Hi babe. Sorry, but what is this POR thing you mentioned...?
If as i suspect its a tank lining product then i think i may know what it might be....
As i did this recently and i royally f##ked my bike up, or rather the people who started putting more ethanol in the fuel did.

The liner which was both dry and cured, disolved into the petrol and then recondensed in the carb and inlet manifolds... A dark brown tar which is mega sticky and gets everywhere...

Didn't find any in the float bowls but everything inline with the filters and inlet manifolds... Goo everywhere!

Hope that helps.some.

Seana
xxx

 

[allojohn]

I'm NOT new here.

Apologies! Petcock would be the place to start.

 

[Steve]

I did unscrew (counter clockwise) the throttle valve screw which seemed to make things a bit better. Not sure if that means anything.

I am not acquainted with a "throttle valve screw". What (where) is it?

I also tried backing out the air screws a bit without much change.

Since you don't have "air screws", I'm going to assume that you are referring to the "idle mixture adjustment screws". Backing them out will richen the idle mixture. I suspect that you are already too rich.

The bike does NOT turn right back on again. I likely may need to re-prime afterward. Does something like that point toward a potential petcock flow problem?

If your petcock won't flow enough for idling, how do you ever expect to go for a ride?

I really do not think the petcock is the problem.

a) ... Ended up not being able to remove some of the air screws on the last few carbs and then bought another set from an 1150.

b) ...
c) replaced the pilot jets for 47.5s
d) just replaced the Main jets for Mikuni 130s b/c I not have V&H 4-1 and K&N pods on the bike.

Regarding:
a) the 1150 carbs are bigger than the 1100 carbs, so jetting will definitely be different.
b)
c) stock 1100E pilot jets are 45. They should work unless you are boring out the engine, installing hot cams, etc. Installing larger carbs and larger jets, I would suspect that you only need to have them turned out about one turn from lightly seated.
d) If you [do] "not have V&H 4-1 and K&N pods on the bike", why do you need such large jets? Just reinforces my idea that you are WAY over-jetted.

.

 

[wirelessguy]

Closer all the time...

I've corrected a few errors and am making headway on my troubleshooting.
Recap: 1150 carbs with Pods and 4-1 Exhaust.
As per Ray's instructions: 47.5 pilots and 135 Mains are in.

My error: Looks like I had the vacuum line attched incorrectly, fixed now.

Bike idles very high with choke on (but even so high) bike still dies out when choke is removed. Main jets are brand new and not clogged, pilot jets are correct too.

I did not go the Dynajet kit route so I'm wondering if I actually need to either heighten the needle somehow or widen the slide hole to deliver more fuel when the choke is off. I'd prefer not to go guessing on that one.

Any thoughts for me?

Thanks.

 

[Steve]

On some bikes (maybe even most of them), using the "choke" will raise the engine speed to 3-4000 rpm. Solution there is to only apply it part-way.
Personally, I like to keep cold engine speed down to about 2000, so I modulate the "choke" lever (knob, whatever) to keep the speed down.

How to keep it from dying when you turn the "choke" off? :-k

Turn up the master idle speed control.

.

 

[mighty13d]

Don't mess with the needles yet. The needles will effect your "roll on" power and have NOTHING to do with your idle.

Have you checked to make sure that your idle screw (the one under the carbs that pushes on the bottom of the pulley that your throttle cable is attached to) isn't set too low. Try turning that clockwise and see if that will put you up in the 11-1200 range. If it will not run at that rpm once warm, then I would say that you're either too lean or too rich. Generally speaking though, if you shut the choke off and it dies, you're too lean.

 

[chuck hahn]

Where is the big idle adjust knob between 2 and 3 carbs set?? Give it a few turns in once you start it on choke and then remove the choke to see if itm stays running

 

[wirelessguy]

I'll try to give it a few turns more clockwise though I had already dial it in quite a bit if not all the way. The rpms go a lot higher under chocked and I believe she starts to backfire a bit too but still cuts out when choke removed. I'll take anothere crack at it and report back.

 

[Steve]

The rpms go a lot higher under chocked ...

Somehow, I get the impression that you are not reading all the suggestions that are being offered. :-k

On some bikes (maybe even most of them), using the "choke" will raise the engine speed to 3-4000 rpm. Solution there is to only apply it part-way.

.