Bizarre Charging Problem - 83 GS400E

[n780]

Hello,

First post here, got my first bike Monday. Exciting but a bit overwhelming at the moment.

Previous owner had it tuned up, fresh carbs and new battery, cold started great. Was running perfect for a day when I got home and then the battery died. I will try perform the stator diagnostics this weekend when I have the time and get my hands on some tools. However, like I said, this is my first bike and I've barely done any wrenching on a vehicle.

This problem is a bit weird so I'm hoping to lay out what I know now in hopes that I may get some direction before I start pulling things apart. Here's the situation:

New battery when purchased, all's good
After ~15 starts was apparent that charge was low
Batter died shortly thereafter
Hill starting bike works and, once running, all lights and gauges function
Revving motor increases intensity of headlight (Canadian model, headlight always on)
Battery does not charge when running.

I've killed an alternator on a car before and this does not seem too similar since peripherals on my bike still get power when it's running, even though the battery doesn't charge. So, in the meantime, I'm tracking down a trickle charger, a multimeter and some tools to get working. If someone has dealt with this case or has a hunch I'm all ears.

Excited to join the bike world and get my hands dirty, not entirely thrilled that my bike's not running already...

Thanks.

 

[posplayr]

Do the "Quick Test" (see signature) and report the results if you would like diagnostic help.

 

[Redman]

Welcome to GSR

................
.............. If someone has dealt with this case .......

You will not have to be here too long before you will read that and laugh at yourself. Many many of us here have had to troubleshoot charging system problems.

Good that you are getting a voltmeter. Then you can prove if your battery is being charged or not.
Then you can troubleshoot the charging system.

Do look for the stator papers back on GSR website "In The Garage".

Do add your location to user profile (goto UserCP) and add your bike year/model in signature line.

....
Revving motor increases intensity of headlight (Canadian model, headlight always on)
.......

Hum, that makes it seem like the charging system is working.

Tell what you find when measuring voltage at battery.

Note: US model have headlight on all the time too (no on-off switch), on 1980 and after models.

 

[n780]

I'm charging my battery right now, I figure the best results will be from a proper charge. In the meantime, could anyone point me in the direction of the fuse box? A little embarrassing that I can't find it... So far I've only found a single fuse coming off the + terminal but that's it.

 

[n780]

The battery was not fully charged so I can't say how valid the test was, but I wanted to check before it got too late to be gunning it at 5000rpm in my yard.
1. 12.4 volts
2. 12.2 volts
3. 12.4(ish) volts
4. 12.6 volts
5. 12.7 volts

So, not much variation. I didn't want to read more into tests when I couldn't say my battery was doing what it was supposed to therefore the rest will have to wait until I get back after the weekend.

What I was able to do, however, was test the R/R and look at the resistance as described in the stator pages. I found two positions (can't recall which, should have taken note) that allow current in both directions. I take it at that that I need to replace it, then?

Thanks for the input so far, I'll pick this up in a few days when I return home.

 

[SVSooke]

You found the 400's "fusebox".Yeap that is all there is

 

[Guest]

Yup, one main fuse is all there is... if it's still the glass inline one, replace it with a blade style while you're dealing with the electrical stuff. More reliable.

 

[posplayr]

The battery was not fully charged so I can't say how valid the test was, but I wanted to check before it got too late to be gunning it at 5000rpm in my yard.
1. 12.4 volts
2. 12.2 volts
3. 12.4(ish) volts
4. 12.6 volts
5. 12.7 volts

So, not much variation. I didn't want to read more into tests when I couldn't say my battery was doing what it was supposed to therefore the rest will have to wait until I get back after the weekend.

What I was able to do, however, was test the R/R and look at the resistance as described in the stator pages. I found two positions (can't recall which, should have taken note) that allow current in both directions. I take it at that that I need to replace it, then?

Thanks for the input so far, I'll pick this up in a few days when I return home.

Sorry for just getting back. Your battery maybe a little down but dropping to 12.2V with key on is showing it is not too bad (unless that is without lights the maybe worse).

You are charging some as indicated by the 12.6V at 5K RPM and the fact that the battery voltage came up 12.7V after you shut down. There was no fold back between 2500 and 5000 (fold back would be indicating current with bad connections) so I'm guessing the stator is not putting out the required voltage and so you are under charging.

The next step would be to jump ahead to the Revised Phase B tests where you test the stator making sure to do both the leg to leg and the leg to ground tests as well.

 

[n780]

Should have added some closer to this thread when I figured it out:

Battery and R/R are fine. Testing legs on stator reported ~30 VAC between any two of the legs. Replacing stator and finally putting a close to this.

Also learned by opening the crankcase to get to the stator that some bikes immerse the sators in oil... Have a nice pavement stain from that lesson.

 

[posplayr]

Should have added some closer to this thread when I figured it out:

Battery and R/R are fine. Testing legs on stator reported ~30 VAC between any two of the legs. Replacing stator and finally putting a close to this.

Also learned by opening the crankcase to get to the stator that some boke immerse the sators in oil... Have a nice pavement stain from that lesson.

That is what keeps them cool.

 

[n780]

Okay, just one day after having it up and running great, new stator, new R/R, 13.6V at idle and a lot less cash in my wallet...

The stator went. Again! Back to 30 VAC of the stator leads and 12.6 ish V at the battery. What the hell??

 

[posplayr]

Okay, just one day after having it up and running great, new stator, new R/R, 13.6V at idle and a lot less cash in my wallet...

The stator went. Again! Back to 30 VAC of the stator leads and 12.6 ish V at the battery. What the hell??

Do a Quick test and post the results to get a bearing on where to go. Make sure the battery is charged first.

BTW, what parts did you replace and with what brand.

 

[n780]

Stator is OEM, this is the R/R: http://www.ebay.com/itm/271025441576?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Stator is putting out 30 VAC across any two of the leads.
R/R looks fine according to the diode test.

Here's the quick test results:

1.) key off - fresh off the battery charger 13.1 V
2.) key on (but not cranking with lights for 10 sec) - 12.3 V
3.) at idle (1500 rpm) - 13.2 V
4.) at 2500 rpm - 12.8 V
5.) at 5000 rpm - 13.1 V
6.) key off - 12.6 V

I went on an hour ride, took the battery out and put it into the charger. It's an automatic that shuts off when the battery's done and it's been juicing it for a good 20 minutes now. The battery was full at the start of the ride so it's definitely not getting what it needs out of the charging system.

 

[posplayr]

Stator is OEM, this is the R/R: http://www.ebay.com/itm/271025441576?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Stator is putting out 30 VAC across any two of the leads.
R/R looks fine according to the diode test.

Here's the quick test results:

1.) key off - fresh off the battery charger 13.1 V
2.) key on (but not cranking with lights for 10 sec) - 12.3 V
3.) at idle (1500 rpm) - 13.2 V
4.) at 2500 rpm - 12.8 V
5.) at 5000 rpm - 13.1 V
6.) key off - 12.6 V

I went on an hour ride, took the battery out and put it into the charger. It's an automatic that shuts off when the battery's done and it's been juicing it for a good 20 minutes now. The battery was full at the start of the ride so it's definitely not getting what it needs out of the charging system.

Can't explain why a second stator seems to be failing after just being replaced but it does not appear that the stator is charging (as your measurements indicate). Am I mistaken or did you not just change it?

 

[n780]

Yeah, has me beat. I got one day of riding and by the time a got home I noticed the lights dimming when I revved. Thought for sure that the new (and expensive) stator from Suzuki would die on the first day.

The stator is under warranty so I guess I'll get a new one and try again. In the meantime I'm looking for shorts or anything that may be a factor, but I don't have a lot of experience to work off. Could there be something else going on that's cooking the stator?

 

[tom203]

I put no faith in those mini ebay R/Rs. I feel they are too small to dissipate heat. That being said, are you sure about the stator's 30 volts AC phase to phase (disconnected from R/R ?) Check you meter on house outlet to be sure that you and meter are reading correctly.
Your 1500 rpm reading at 13.2 volts means stator is doing something, but not enough as revs climb.

 

[posplayr]

I put no faith in those mini ebay R/Rs. I feel they are too small to dissipate heat. That being said, are you sure about the stator's 30 volts AC phase to phase (disconnected from R/R ?) Check you meter on house outlet to be sure that you and meter are reading correctly.
Your 1500 rpm reading at 13.2 volts means stator is doing something, but not enough as revs climb.

Yes there is something coming from the stator, but in the end when the voltage dropped to 12.6 after being above 13v then he will basically be running at a loss. The longer he runs the lower it will go.

This is consistent with the apparently 30 vac measurements. Not sure how the R/R could have caused this unless the stator is already fried.

 

[n780]

I put no faith in those mini ebay R/Rs. I feel they are too small to dissipate heat. That being said, are you sure about the stator's 30 volts AC phase to phase (disconnected from R/R ?) Check you meter on house outlet to be sure that you and meter are reading correctly.
Your 1500 rpm reading at 13.2 volts means stator is doing something, but not enough as revs climb.

At the start of this I initially misdiagnosed the problem and purchased the new R/R. As it turns out, the original Suzuki one was fine. The problem is the same regardless of which R/R I'm using. Tested with a different multimeter from work with the same results.

I'm frying stators and I don't know why...

 

[posplayr]

At the start of this I initially misdiagnosed the problem and purchased the new R/R. As it turns out, the original Suzuki one was fine. The problem is the same regardless of which R/R I'm using. Tested with a different multimeter from work with the same results.

I'm frying stators and I don't know why...

If the new stator is burnt like the last the I know what your problem is.
Get an sh775 And it will stop

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

Suzuki gotta love em they started with an electrical problem and built a motorcycle around it.

I know you are frustrated but welcome to the site.